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Saturday, May 30, 2009

Health Care Freedom and Choice

The furor now is Health Care Reform, Universal Health Care, and National Health Care; but what they ALL add up to is Government Run Health Care. Which, to put it mildly, SCARES ME TO DEATH, so I won’t need health care; because I’ll be ashes blowing in the wind since I want to be cremated when I die.

Why am I so terrified of Government Health Care? Well, let’s see, our government currently runs Medicare, Medicaid, our postal service, the IRS, the DMV’s, and the unemployment centers.

Let’s take a quick look at Medicare and Medicaid. First and foremost, they are almost bankrupt. The money that those of us have paid into the system for years and years will probably be long gone before we even get to retirement age. Why? Because the trusty government has dipped into the coffers for other things and all the corruption. The government has mismanaged the Medi-funds in numerous ways, but Americans are supposed to believe that government run health care, paid for with American tax dollars, is going to be managed properly and that the millions of dollars in corruption is just miraculously going to disappear. Or maybe we’ll just hire a few Health Care Czars to guard the funds! How about Medicare and Medicaid patients? Who do they currently go to when they are mishandled by the government system? NO ONE, that’s who. They are at the mercy of the government. Yep, that’s right. The government runs and controls the Medi-system and all those patients are FORCED to follow the government rules and regulations whether they like them or not and whether they are fair or not. Same goes for the IRS.

American’s most beloved entity is the Internal Revenue Service. They are so fair and all. You get a notice in the mail that says you owe, better pay up or go to jail. You are GUILTY until YOU prove your innocence. You have NO ONE to turn to. The government is the ONLY and FINAL entity in this transaction. Americans FEAR the IRS. The IRS can turn a person bankrupt with the stroke of a pen and there isn’t anything he/she can do about it. This government run system shows no sympathy, empathy or remorse. It takes your money all year long, makes numerous errors, but yet, somehow it’s YOUR job to prove THEIR error! Yet, we’re supposed to believe that another government agency is going flow more efficiently. Yeah, right.

Our postal departments, all over the country, are run by our wonderful government, too. We just experienced another postage stamp increase. Every time the post office needs more money there’s a postage increase. I realize 2 cents isn’t a king’s ransom; however, it’s NOT my fault or yours that the postal workers get every holiday off, 5 weeks paid vacation, sick days, personal days, pensions AND a yearly salary of at least $45K per year. I mean come on, does it take that much SKILL to work at the post office? Am I to trust that once the government gets its hands on my tax dollars for health care it won’t raise my taxes every six months because it needs more money? The the post office raises its postage rates every time it needs money and there is NO difference between the post office and government health care-they will BOTH be run by the GOVERNMENT.

I probably shouldn’t even get started on the Department of Motor Vehicles. Now these departments are Clusters Flusters no matter what state you’re in. Just about everyone has a driver’s license and has stood in line longer than necessary while watching government workers sit around doing nothing. Almost every home has at least one vehicle, some have two or three; but it can take up to 6 weeks for these departments to get a registration mailed out and there are times when they just plain lose the application. Yep, they will cash the check and lose the paperwork. Once that happens, it’s up to YOU to get duplicate paperwork so you can get your title and registration. Having been in the automotive industry for 25 years, I dealt with the DMV on a daily basis. One representative pulls the check off the paperwork and then sends that paperwork to another representative. If the paperwork gets lost, oh well, the check was cashed. Do we want this type of attitude with something as valuable as our HEALTH? Don’t tell me it’ll change, because it won’t. The government will hire people to handle health claims just like they hire people to complete applications at the DMV and the unemployment office or to plug in your income tax return. They hire people to fill positions. As long as they have bodies, the government is happy. It has nothing to do with competence. Just look at Congress.

The unemployment office is my all-time favorite! They KNOW they have YOU right where they want you. YOU need them, they do NOT need you. That attitude is reflective by the way they treat you on the telephone. I had to call the unemployment office. I was talked down to, yelled at and hung up on. I had to call back and was on hold for 30 minutes. These workers know that they aren’t going anywhere. They will NEVER lose their jobs. I spoke with one gentleman at the unemployment office about the woman that treated me poorly and he told me that there were numerous complaints on her but nothing has ever been done to her. Yet, I’m supposed to think government run health care, with government employees, is going to be better? If I have a question or a problem why would I think I’ll get quality service? I won’t, because I’ll be calling the government about their employees who are union employees and we all know they’re NEVER fired.

With government health care there will be no opposition. With no competition there is no incentive to make it more efficient or more innovative. Remember the days when we were forced to go with a utility company? Now we have choices. Look at all the cell phone companies. They are competing for our business. They go out of their way to get new customers which drives the prices DOWN. They even give free months service. If you call and complain they will wipe the charges for the month clean, because they don’t want you to be displeased and leave for one of the other 2 dozen companies out there. If we have only ONE government program, who will we turn to if we are dissatisfied? NO ONE. WE WILL BE STUCK!

Having choices has always driven the cost of goods and services DOWN while driving the quality of those commodities UP. With only one place or point of sale they will have the conglomerate, the monopoly. A person or entity who has the monopoly can DICTATE how something is performed, the price, the quality, anything and everything. Is that what we want? Are we so desperate they we will settle for the devil? And that’s what we’re getting if we allow the government to handle our health care...Satan. That may sound harsh, but it’s the truth.

As Americans we are about truth. We are also about Freedom and Choice. It’s our RIGHT to have both FREEDOM and CHOICE, and with government run anything we have neither.


  1. Sorry this isn't about what you wrote today.

    I like what you said in 'About Me' and having a blog just to say whatever. I have trouble with why I have a blog and am caught up in wanting comments.

    You do sound like an agreeable person!

  2. Two words of advice: stay healthy.

  3. Unless yuo are wealthy enough to afford to pay for your own health care, what choice do you have Pamela? How many forms and referrals do you need to go outside your network of preferred providers? You must have a list of approved drugs. You need one that's not on the list you either come up with the cash or you're SOL.

    Social Security is solvent for a long time to come. People can retire at 65 thanks to Medicare. Medicaid helps provide care to our indigent senior citizens. Would you rather they just hurry up and die?

    The Postal Service has been a tremendous success story since Ben Franklin. I appreciate my mailman delivering regardless of rain, sleet or snow.

    When everyone is as glad to support the services our government provides with honest payment of taxes, then the IRS can take a kind and gentle attitude.

    I don't know what Uniopn you're talking about that has members that can't be fired. I was an officer in my local for years and I saw plenty of members deservedly fired.

    I also don't understand your enamorment with private vs. public. Enron was run by scumbags. KBR has had to repay billions in overcharges for their services. There are creeps in every walk of life. To have us think only government has a few clowns is naive and a cheap political shot.

  4. Very interesting perspective! Anything government run does tend to make me wary.

    I wanted to thank you for your kind comments today on The Jason Show. From a writer such as you, it really means a lot.

  5. Pamela: "Remember the days when we were forced to go with a utility company? Now we have choices. Look at all the cell phone companies. They are competing for our business."

    I wouldn't get too carried with this adoration of free enterprise, which has demonstrated itself to be NO antidote against corruption. Look no further than the meltdown on Wall Street to understand how a Culture of Collusion and Chicanery can infect entire financial systems. The same Culture of Collusion and Chicanery has turned our health care system into a catastrophe marked by rampant abuse and fraud. I will not argue this post point-for-point because you raise many points, each worthy of separate rebuttal. But I will leave you with this:

    I have lived and worked in Europe (London in the 1980s and Paris in the 1990s) for many years where my health care was provided by a combination of public and private insurances. I experienced no rationing of care whatsoever, and the horror stories you read about in certain circles are all untrue. One of my closest friends lives in Canada where his prescriptions drugs, for example, cost less than $5 whereas my medications, the exact same drugs prescribed to my friend, cost me $300 (monthly copay). I wait up to six months for doctors appointments that my friend gets within days.

    You have allowed yourself to fall victim to a disinformation campaign paid for by lobbyists of big pharma and the health insurance providers … those who milk the system and fight tooth and nail to keep their greedy franchises intact. I believe you read and track only one side of this issue and allow yourself to be blind sighted.

  6. To MOSTLY KIND AND GENTLE TRUTH101: Yes, and Obama IS the second coming of Jesus Christ, in your world.

    Pamela, no matter how we feel, I believe that National Health care will be shoved down our throats like it or not.

    Freedom of choice, like all our other freedoms is fast disappearing.

  7. i like rightklik's advice pammy... oh the irony here. obama believes he is nothing but empathy and compassion and yet as you point out the institution which he believes epitmizes those traits, government, has proven to be less than compassionate or forgiving.

  8. You must not belong to an HMO Reverend. It chooses your doctor. Your treatment. When you see a health care professional. How much you will pay.

    I am happy that your church provides excellent health insurance to you and your fellow clergy Reverend. I pray that everyone will one day enjoy the benefit of quality health insurance.

    Thank you for your service to the Church and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.


    You and YOUR ilk are going to be the ruination of this one time GREAT Nation.

    You can sit there with your "MOSTLY KIND AND GENTLE TRUTH" Bull Shit all you want to, but deep down you and Shaw and the rest of your leftist FREAKS along with Obama are dragging American into a hell hole.

    Just like he is doing with thw Auto Industry! Where are the stories of dealers who have had their dealerships and private business stolen from them by the federal government? Where are the stories about people who live where there is over 30% unemployment? Where were the stories of people flooded out of their homes a few months ago? That's right, there are NONE. No stories of anything except O's date night or his visits to California to hobnob with the celebrities. This is absolutely the most dangerous time this country has ever seen. And all I hear are crickets chirping..........

    And Sonia Sotomayor's elevation to the Supreme Court is just another example of Obama's "in-your-face" approach to politics.

  10. Most Rev. Gregori and Pat Jenkins, you both are right on target.
    Amen to what you both said.

  11. Sue: Thanks for stopping by. I left comments on your blog.

    Right: Nice to see you again! I hope we ALL stay healthy; because if we don’t, I fear we’re ALL going to be in BIG trouble.

    Jason: You are just the sweetest guy. I wish I could hug you!

    Reverend: It’s good to see you again, too. I feel the same way you do about the government ramming health care down our throats. Our freedoms are being taken away bit by bit.

    Pat: You are absolutely correct, people have the misconception that government is creating universal health care out of compassion, when in fact this is all part of a bigger agenda.

    Aggie: Your post has absolutely nothing to do with health care. I would appreciate you staying on topic in the future. It’s obvious you didn’t read my comment rules. I will not tolerate insults to my readers. Truth is a regular here and I will not permit you calling him names. You may feel free to disagree with him RESPECTFULLY but when you stoop to undignified means, that’s when I draw the line. If you enjoy insulting people, may I suggest starting your own blog where you can spew insults and defamatory remarks to anyone you want. Here on MY blog, however, you WILL respect others or you will be deleted. I hope in the future you will follow my rules.

    Frank: Thanks for stopping by. I like your profile name!

  12. Truth: I’m not sure what you mean by your 1st question. I think you are asking me about my current insurance. So, I’ll answer it that way. My current private insurance is AWESOME, but I pay big time for it. I have a $10 copay for doctor appointments; $10 on generic Rx’s and a $20 copay for brand names. I have never had to go out of my network in all the years I’ve had private insurance, which has been since I was 19 yrs old. If I do need a referral, my doctor gives me one, so I don’t have a hassle there. I can’t imagine government giving me what I have NOW. As far as Medicare and Medicaid being solvent; there are reports that they will be depleted by 2016 and some say 2037, and then there are some that say 2057. Either way, government has dipped into the coffers, there is NO denying that. I never said I wanted senior citizens to “hurry up and die.” I would love for our senior citizens to get their entire medical paid for 100%, they deserve that. But they are short changed all the time with medical benefits and have to pay massive amounts for medication. I like my postal carrier. Postman John is great. He delivers my mail on time. I always know when John is on vacation, because my mail is late. But does John really need $40K a year to deliver mail? I mean, really, he drives a mail truck. I pay my taxes, Truth, and I don’t have a problem with that. There are a certain amount of taxes that EVERYONE needs to pay in order to keep our country going. But to consider someone guilty first and threaten them, which is what the IRS does, is WRONG…oh unless you’re Geithner or Daschle. What unions don’t fire? Well, let’s look at the teacher’s union, which is government run. It takes an act of God to get a teacher fired. I know this because there are teachers in my family; my mom is a retired teacher; my sister-in-law is a principal. I heard plenty of stories about teachers that should’ve been fired but never lost their job. That union is just one example. Maybe you were a union officer of a trade union. The trade unions guarantee wages not jobs and there are no job banks like the UAW. You are right; there are scumbags in corporations, too. But I’ll take those scumbags over government scumbags any day. At least we can shut down or prosecute corporate scumbags. Just try that with a government agency.

    Octo: I thought long and hard prior to writing my health care post. All of my feeling are mine and mine alone. They don’t come from lobbyists or talking points and there aren’t any stats, just my opinion using my own experiences I have had with other government run agencies. You said you had an agreeable experience with government run health care in another country. Well, my brother and sister-in-law lived in Canada for 3 years and relayed their nightmarish experiences to me. I also have friends that moved from the UK exclusively for private insurance here in America because of their horrendous experience with government health care. So, all I can say is maybe our expectations are different.

    I think each of us have our own reasons why we either want or don’t want government health care. (See the first part of my comment to Truth for why I like private insurance.) I don’t believe the government should be ramming universal care down our throats. I think a nation-wide vote should take place to see who REALLY wants it. That would be the FAIR thing to do.

  13. "When everyone is as glad to support the services our government provides with honest payment of taxes..." Like a lot of Obama's friends, OH & the Sec. of the Treasury - the Boss of the IRS...

    "I also don't understand your enamorment with private vs. public." Private can operate by it's own leadership & is in competition to provide the best, or get put out of business. So prices compete, services compete, employers compete to get the best staff by offering benefits of all shapes/types...the public has CHOICES. I'm all about pro-choice when it comes to that.

    But when there's no competition (public), the people have no choices, there is not improvement of services/prices/benefits, innovations. People have to take what they can get, or not get anything.

    "Enron was run by scumbags." Sure, but there are tens of thousands of private businesses that AREN'T; providing goods & services in a competitive market, including health care.

    I'm incredibly thankful that health care is a competitive market, or I'd be dead three times over by now...truly. Medical research (& funding provided by private sources) saved my life. I hate to think what would have happened to me if it hadn't been for the health care system we currently have. One thing for sure: my husband would be a fatherless widower.

    "The same Culture of Collusion and Chicanery has turned our health care system into a catastrophe marked by rampant abuse and fraud."
    Our family pays DEARLY for self-pay private insurance b/c we're responsible. Compare that w/ people (legal or not) who walk into any E-room & get med. care (more often for sniffles or sore throat than for emergency), then walk out & never look back! THAT'S FRAUD!! And it results in MY premiums going through the roof!!

    Then there are the folks on Medicaid who're receiving treatment that I don't get b/c I can't/won't afford it. Then there are the folks who're scamming the system for as many SSI checks as they can, having children one after the other, not marrying the father so they can get more & more checks...etc. I'm not making this up. These folks were my clients once-upon-a-time...

    Sure, people are people, but let's not pretend that big, bad corporations & the evil free enterprise system shoulders all the guilt. Let's not pretend that the poor, downtrodden, browbeaten public is angelic, either.

  14. When something bad happens guess what everybody does. They all say what is the government going to do for me?

    When Trent Lott's house got wasted by Hurricane Katrina and his insurance wouldn't pay, even this bastion of conservatism demanded his government help him.

    I'm glad you and the Reverend have good health insurance Pamela. I wish everyone did. And I disaggree with you about mail delivery salaries. I appreciate getting my mail regardless of sleet, rain or gloom of night. Mail delivery is a hell of a big responsibility. 40k is not unreasonable.

    If I could say to Aggie respectfully, Sister, had the govenrment not done what it did for GM and Chrysler, all their assets would be carved up and all their dealerships would be out of business. Their warrenties would be worthless. These were two of America's greatest companies. We had to try and help them survive.

    Thank you for allowing me to be a part of the conversation.

  15. MK&GT said, "When something bad happens guess what everybody does. They all say what is the government going to do for me?"

    ...and that's precisely the root of our country's problem.

  16. Facing the same sort of issues in UK/EU. It's so nice to find people who are also concerned.
    Would be grateful for any support of this petition. Chris

  17. When something bad happens guess what everybody does. They all say what is the government going to do for me?

    Truth: Not everyone does that. I don’t and my family doesn’t.

    I agree that I’m fortunate that my family has good health insurance; however we PAY for it. It doesn’t come for free. My husband works and PAYS; because his employer doesn’t provide it.

    I’ll have to disagree with you, respectfully of course, about GM and Chrysler. I think the government getting involved is a huge mistake. I was in the automotive industry for 25 years and what the government is doing is wrong. The government has NO CLUE how to run a car company. I’m going to write a post on that within the next day or two.

    Thanks for being part of our conversation, Truth, you are welcome here, you know that.

    Susannah: Thanks so much for stopping by. I appreciate your input. So much of what you said is reflective of how I feel but didn’t write it because my post would’ve been way too long. Competition is extremely important, especially in the health industry. I think we need even MORE competition.

    Anonymous/Chris: Thanks for the link. I’m assuming you’re from the UK and are experiencing the “wonders” of government run health care. I wish you would share some of them wish us. More residents of Europe and Canada need to speak out so that the facts are honestly revealed about government run health care.

  18. Now don't tell me that you and everyone else hasn't asked "Where's a cop when you need one?"

    Right now all the Republican farmers and drainage district presidents in my area are up in arms over FEMA announcing it wouldn't pay for flood cleanup anymore.

    We all rely on government. Our disagreement is really how much government and paying for it as opposed to borrowing.

  19. Now don't tell me that you and everyone else hasn't asked "Where's a cop when you need one?"

    Truth: Of course I rely on policemen and firemen. (My brother is a police officer and a volunteer fireman) I also PAY taxes for that privilege. I told you I don’t mind paying my FAIR share in taxes. I don’t ask for government HAND OUTS. I don’t rely on government to FIX my problems, to feed me, house me, clothe me, give me a free cell phone or a down payment for a car (yes they are giving people on welfare down payments for cars these days).

    Yes, our main argument is how much government is too much. I believe the path we’re on now is disastrous. Do we REALLY want MORE government? Do we want government running our banks, car companies, insurance companies and health care? What’s left? I suppose they could take over the fashion industry next then the furniture industry after that…

  20. I thonk most of the clothing and furniture industry is overseas now Pamela. I'd just as soon have those jobs back here in the Carolinas under government ownership.

  21. My esteemed colleague and co-contributor, Rockync (who I believe is or was a healthcare professional), just put up a short post on healthcare reform. A reasonable appeal, I believe.

  22. The Obama supporters have hope, but no change.

    And the economy continues to suck the entire country into a depression.

    This chit is getting old.

  23. Oh come now Kathleen. You're just being bitter. You sound like a lady that just needs a good national health care program to kick those angry feeling down the road.

  24. I love it. Railing against the government in the same post where you reveal that when you needed help you went crying to the gov't for a check. Absolutely priceless. The hypocrisy is astounding.

    Hey, if you're still unemployed, maybe you have a little free time to educate yourself on the health care plans that have been proposed. None of them do away with private insurance.

    Seriously. Turn off Limbaugh and Glenn Beck and do a little thinking for yourself.

  25. we don't need to pay for health care for illegals!!
    It's bad enough that American Jobs have been shipped over seas for decades. Bringing the cheap labor into this country was an extra jab in the eye. The goal was to drive down costs as much as possible and blind the citizens with access to cheap money. All the while Illegal Immigrants were able to work and get services and send money back to wherever they are from. The party is over, it's time to go home.

  26. Truth: You’re right about the clothing industry, that was a bad example on my part. However, I don’t want the government running any private company! Private vs. Public…private works better every time. Government is NOT the answer. We the people ARE the answer. We can do the work better and more efficiently than government. Government needs to get out of the way.

    Octo: Thanks for the heads up on Rocky’s post. I’ll read it.

    Right: Yes, if I’m not mistaken, Obama said the stimulus plan would create or save jobs and stop the unemployment before it hit 9%. It’s now over 9%. What has it created but a huge deficit? I realize Bush left him with a deficit; but did Obama have to triple it?

    Mark: Excuse me, but WHERE did I say I WAS receiving unemployment? I’m pretty sure I SAID I CALLED the unemployment office. One does not have to be unemployed to call them. If you had read my other comments, you would have read where I posted my husband PAYS for private insurance; we’re EMPLOYED. I suppose we pay for our insurance with our big whopping unemployment checks, huh? Maybe YOU should try some education and learn reading comprehension. Also, a blog or a profile would make you appear more legit.

    Eric: I agree. The illegals have drained this country long enough. Look at California…the Liberal Utopia…BROKE. And the Liberals want us to mirror the country after California! Enough already. It did NOT work there; it’s NOT going to work anywhere else. Thanks for following my blog and for your comments.

  27. This comment has been removed by the author.

  28. The world is about ready to go to war in several places and BO is talking about universal health care. Moronic approach if I've ever seen one. BO doesn't have a clue. Just remember he is not giving universal health care free. You will pay every way imaginable for this.
    The LEFT can't see the truth, even if it is staring them in the face. Your comments just confirm how blind king Nobama's sheep herd is. ..but that doesn't stop the LEFT from calling it lies. It is just a typical Lefty tactic, and unfortunately the mental midgets in this country believe it.

    The problem begins with our borders. Fix the illegal immigration problems. Get rid of the pork, the wasteful spending, begin with the wasteful spending of our new administration. Let's begin with common sense. Like flying in Pizza Chefs to the White House.
    Obama is stealing from our children and grandchildren not only to fund abortion and infanticide in the U.S. and abroad and to pay for thousands of ACORN "community organizers to commit fraud, but also to spread and enforce Marxism through countless means, such as this "new law to expand national community service programs." Why should our children and grandchildren pay for Obama and Michelle forcing us to swallow their socialized programs and Marxism?

  29. Truth~ "You must not belong to an HMO Reverend. It chooses your doctor. Your treatment. When you see a health care professional. How much you will pay." For the most part, this is true. However, as a preferred provider in HMO networks, I found that it was very easy to request & receive 'extended services'. I never had any trouble justifying & receiving additional tx for my clients. Yes, it was a pain in the tush, but $$'s not free.

    Social Security is not solvent for a long time to come. That pool of $$ is being used for SO many other purposes besides retirement benefits. Further, w/ the population getting older, the older living longer, disability claims ("SSI") fraud, etc. there will be NO MORE $$ by the time my H & I retire. We've operated on this assumption since we got married 17 yrs. ago. The way our Govt. spends $$, misappropriates funding, it would be FOOLISH to rely or even think of relying on Social Security for retirement.

    We have, from the beginning of our adult life KNOWN that we cannot depend on govt. entity of any kind for our livelihood. Now, the govt. is trying to CREATE DEPENDENCY, & people are falling for it with GLEE! IT's SICKENING!

    "I'd just as soon have those jobs back here in the Carolinas under government ownership."
    Absolutely NOT - says this Carolina girl whose husband works in the furniture industry. (Yes, I said furniture industry!) I'd rather beat the bushes & use the ingenuity God gave me - which is what my husband & his company are doing, btw, than have the Govt. get their claws on ANY CENT of their business! Pam's right, govt. is NOT the answer! Sheesh!

    Bob says, "Just remember he is not giving universal health care free. You will pay every way imaginable for this."

    AMEN! Sounds like a dream come true, doesn't it? Esp. if you believe you're entitled to it , & the govt. owes you anyway...They have said - you don't have to go along w/ it - you can stay w/ your old insurer. Everyone w/ half a brain knows they'll make it terribly cost prohibitive (i.e., creating dependence) to stay w/ your old provider...

  30. The difference is Independence vs. Entitled Dependence. 9-11 hit & my recently promoted H was laid off, me working 1/2 time, kids.

    Did we cry to the govt' to get us a new job, being one of the unemployed, uninsured? NO! We cried, sure, for lots of reasons, but never for that. Mostly, we cried b/c SO many people lost their whole FAMILIES, we lost a job.

    We circled the wagons, & my H started a home improvement business. He busted his buns for months & made enough to pay for our COBRA & our house payment. THEN we found out we were expecting again - me w/ a horrid pregnancy history. I couldn't work anymore, we paid $680.00 (out of pocket) per Rx, for a medicine that kept me out of the hospital & basically alive.

    Life can be surprising & difficult, but you put your heads together & work it out! NOT ONCE did we even THINK that somebody OWED US ANYTHING - not a job, not a mortgage payment, not health insurance, not healthcare for 2 children, or for me.

    Yes, we were very blessed to have medical care, but like Pam said, we PAID DEARLY for it & were grateful.

    Grateful Independencd vs. Entitled Dependence. Self respect vs. squat & grasping sell out.

    I've lived it. Sorry, it's just the way I see it.

  31. LOL. Suuuure, you're employed. Doing what? Calling the unemployment office for fun? Nice back tracking there.

    Anyway, since you're against all this socialism and all, it's good to know that you will be refusing social security when you're eligible. After all, that's a socialistic program and you wouldn't want to take out any of the money you put in, like a socialist program works. Right? Of course you'll be consistent.

    By the way, it's obvious that your comments about my profile and/or blog are displays of frustration stemming from your inability to defend your anti-American views. Good try at deflection there, and I'm sure you'll be backed up by the other dittoheads here. Oh well. Carry on!

  32. Perhaps I should have made myself clearer here because few of the righties visit Truth Shall Rule these days.

    I also am ticked that the Social Security trust fund is raided. I happen to agree with former Senator and Attorney General Ashcroft that it belongs in a "lockbox."

    I did a post stating my position on single payer national health insurance which everyone pays for with a 4% income tax and appropriate deductibles and copays to keep the mooches from abusing the system.

    The biggest difference between me and the average deluded right winger is I am willing to pay more for programs I believe in. I am more than happy to pay more income tax to see that our injured Veterans are treated properly. I posted that statement on several blogs, Right and Left, over the last few months. Not one rightie has said they would also pay more to help our Vets.

    I guess the right still agrees with Dick Cheney who said "deficits don't matter."

    If you want to balance the budget with only spending cuts, find 700 billion you would cut. But don't touch defense. That would embolden the enemy.

    "Perhaps I should have made myself clearer here because few of the righties visit Truth Shall Rule these days."

    You are a POMPOUS little guttersnipe aren't you!
    A real pompous ass. I am sick to death of this creep. Everything he says is, in one way or another, utterly laughable. And that goes for the rest of your Stupid ilk that you seem to follow around the blogisphere.

  34. Bob: I agree, we and our children and grandchildren are now saddled with debt that is out of control. We need to STOP spending and adding this health care program will only make it worse. And you’re right; shoving it down our throats is NOT choice.

    Susannah: You and your family are living the American dream. Yes, you’ve struggled and I’m sorry for that; but you’ve picked yourself up by your boot straps and continued when you could have stayed on the ground and allowed someone else to pick you up. Life isn’t easy, as I tell my children ALL the time, and as my parents always told me. Life is what one makes it. Isn’t it amazing that when life is the darkest you can still see a tiny flicker of light that becomes a beacon because you kept your eyes open. It’s the people that refuse to open their eyes that never succeed.

    Mark: I was a Controller for 25 years and my role also encompassed Human Resources. I had to hire and fire employees; which also meant I had to CONTACT the UNEMPLOYMENT office to discuss errors on claimant’s applications. I currently work part time doing the books for a local motorcycle and ATV store, because it is convenient for me and my family.

    SS isn’t a socialized program; it was designed as a savings program. But people are receiving money when they NEVER paid a dime into it. That’s socialized. That’s welfare. Those who PAID into it should receive their money back.

    I’m not frustrated, Mark. Far from it. I’m a very happy person. I just question people who have no profile. They are normally Trolls. If you aren’t a Troll, I apologize. However, I am NOT anti-American. And if you EVER come on MY blog again and accuse me of that, you will be DELETED without a second thought.

    Truth: You and I are on the same page as far as Veterans are concerned. I feel they deserve better treatment and it’s our DUTY to pay for them and if my tax dollars go for that, then I’m ALL for it. I’m on the right and I think deficits DO matter. That’s why I’m up in arms, so to speak. And if this health care goes through our deficit will go up even more. Either that or our taxes will go through the roof. Congress doesn’t have an accurate amount on what the health care will REALLY cost; they are just throwing out an estimate. And you’re correct about not cutting defense spending. With N. Korea, Iran and Venezuela, I wouldn’t touch our defense spending, unless it’s something that is proven to be useless. But do we need swine odor research, tattoo removal and bridges to nowhere? Let’s get realistic here, you must admit there is a lot of pork in the stimulus and the omnibus that could be cut to save us Americans billions.

  35. It’s my Choice: You have the right to your opinion; however, I have a blog policy and it’s that everyone states his/her opinion in a respectful manner and without debasing others. So, in the future, please refrain from insulting my other readers, thank you.

    I deleted your 2nd comment because it is a duplicate of the post on your blog. So, if someone wants to read it, click here

    And as a side note. Mark, the Troll, called me anti-American again. I told him if he did this, he would be deleted. He’s not welcome here. This is MY blog and I have never insulted anyone nor have I called anyone anti-American because of the views they hold.

  36. Mark - whose comment perhaps has been deleted - says we are socialist b/c we have socialism...

    And I say social security should never have been started in the first place. Only b/c liberals don't trust that American people are smart enough to save & plan for themselves, but rather must have the govt' do it for them...It's insulting, it really is.

    ...I know it helps some people in dire straits who cannot help themselves. That's fine. That's NOT who I'm talking about...

    Newsflash: FDR was NOT that greatest President of the 20th century & he did NOT get us out of the Grt. Depression. WWII did. Sad, but true.

    Oh, Pam, thanks for what you said earlier about the American dream stuff. I know how very, very, incredibly blessed my husband & I, & our family is. Thank you.

  37. oops! Typo!

    Mark says we are socialist b/c we have SOCIAL SECURITY...

  38. Pamela D. Hart said...
    "It’s my Choice: You have the right to your opinion; however, I have a blog policy and it’s that everyone states his/her opinion in a respectful manner and without debasing others. So, in the future, please refrain from insulting my other readers, thank you."

    I for one get a kick out of pissing people off that I don't like and the guy that "It’s my Choice" is one of them...If you read his blog he has no problem insulting and name calling Republicans and Conservatives, all the time, in fact he relishes in it. He is so pathetically stupid that he deserves to be insulted. His blog contently refers to Republicans as " Goofballs with no ideas and no clue what they stand for" Or "brainless" or " racist" So who is he to not be insulted in kind? If you waht to buy into his Kind and Gentle load of crap, be my guest..
    So if I can quote an old saying..."what goes around, comes around"
    PS.. If I violated YOUR rules, and you prefer than I don't post here any longer, I will honor your request.

    Thank you for allowing me to participate in your conversation.

    "It’s my Choice" You go Girl!

  39. Ain't Love Grand?

  40. Wow, what fire works..It must be that vast right-wing conspiracy again.

  41. Look boys and girls. I promised Pamela I would behave myself on my visits at her site. I even promised to behave as best I could at other sites because I have great respect for her.

    So to be nice to Pamela, I invite all of might right knights of the keyboard to my little corner of the blog world and I'll gladly exchange insults with you there. Especially you Mr. "I ain't got no brains. Oops! I mean blog"

    Thank you all for allowing me to be a part of the conversation.

  42. Hey listen up Good and Plenty NumbNuts, or Kind and Gentle, or whatever you call yourself today!
    You and the witch on a broomstick as well as that other creep are the ones than came here and to the other blogs spewing your and anti American venom until people like Pitbull, Suzanna and 2-3 other called you on it.
    Do you really think that by saying someone is wrong we give a crap and give you any credibility? Enforcing the no-asshole rule is a difficult thing to do so they let yo in just to make things easy on themselves..
    But now that the niceties are away, I'd like to ask you a question...I've been looking everywhere for a person like you. I love how you act. Can you give me your name? You see, I am writing a book on assholes ... and you are absolutely perfect for Chapter 1.

    And here's some news for you and the rest of the "mind numbed , brainwashed "sheeple" robot is YOU ..."lafmassive" that follow you around...I would suggest that you read a few books on MARXISM but then you'd obviously falter the first time your eyes fell upon a three syllable word. Have your daddy explain what SOCIALISM means so that when you vote ...NEXT time, you WON'T vote for a SOCIALIST MORON like Obama AGAIN.
    By the way, the REPUBLICAN party is the "Party of Lincoln" Lincoln was the first REPUBLICAN President

  43. This comment has been removed by the author.

    "Look boys and girls. I promised Pamela I would behave myself on my visits at her site. I even promised to behave as best I could at other sites because I have great respect for her.

    So to be nice to Pamela, I invite all of might right knights of the keyboard to my little corner of the blog world and I'll gladly exchange insults with you there. Especially you Mr. "I ain't got no brains. Oops! I mean blog"

    Why don't you put your head BACK in the sand and shut the "F" up!

    The rest of us have work to do.

  45. The whole point in a nutshell is that White Americans just can't swallow the idea of a black president. Especially one with Islamic sounding name. Why don’t you hang the storm trooper uniform in the closet. Take off you white hood and robe. Reverently fold your Confederate flag and put it away for now. And wake up, this is the new Amerika. You chicken’s have come home to roost!

  46. Susannah: Yeah, I deleted Mark. I warned him about accusing me of being anti-American again. I suppose Trolls will never learn.

    You’re welcome. You are such a kind person. I read it in your blog posts and comments. You are a TRUE American. I wish only good to you and your family. I’m also glad we’ve crossed paths, even though it’s only via the blogosphere

    Stones: Nice to see ya again! How’ve you been? I hope well. Yes, lots of love is being thrown all over the place here again. At least it’s not dull.

    Cisco: Isn’t it ALWAYS a right wing conspiracy?

    My Choice, No Blog and My Files: Guys, I get that you enjoy the word fight. However, I like my blog rated G. I know it’s namby-pamby and not very exciting; but couldn’t you play nice while on my blog and save the other stuff for your own blog or for blogs that don’t have pesky rules? I’d really appreciate it.

  47. Gray: I don’t think it has anything to do with President Obama’s skin color, at least not as far as I’m concerned. And I don’t care about his name, either. There are A LOT of people with different sounding names these days. I don’t want a NEW America. I want the one that our Founding Fathers created. It has Freedom and Choice. We are losing those 2 very important items and I think that’s dangerous. Just as too much Government control is dangerous. We the People need more power.

  48. Pamela D. Hart said...
    "Gray: I don’t think it has anything to do with President Obama’s skin color, at least not as far as I’m concerned. And I don’t care about his name, either. "

    Pam, please don't buy into that racist "Brother" he's just a low-life race-baiter

  49. David: Hi! It’s good to see you again! Thanks for the advice; but I try to comment to everyone that leaves a post. I may be fighting an uphill battle, but for now that’s my plan.

  50. Pamela D. Hart said...
    "David: Hi! It’s good to see you again! Thanks for the advice; but I try to comment to everyone that leaves a post. I may be fighting an uphill battle, but for now that’s my plan"

    All that is fine as long as you know who you are dealing with. In this case you are dealing with the Devil himself.

  51. Dear God, keep my health, 'cause the gov't won't. They'll keep my money though...

  52. What's wrong with a free choice by Americans?
    That's what President Obama is offering. If you believe otherwise, you have not read the legislation.
    One can choose a private, or public plan.
    Could it be that in the competition of the market, the private plans will lose out to the public plans?
    Isn't that why the private companies are pumping so much money into our legislators, to get them to eliminate the competition?
    The annual cost increase of a private plan is 3 times higher than a public plan (using stats from Medicare vs private Health companies).
    If the American people are given a choice (which they should) the private companies know they will lose.
    Part of the beast of bureauacy, is waste. Has that waste caused us to eliminate the Department of Defense?
    Should we close down all government because we can prove waste?
    Private companies are riddled with waste.
    If you don't want public coverage, fine don't choose it.
    Why eliminate a public choice for those who want it?
    Which side is dictating the path of Health Care coverage? The side that offers a choice, or the side that does not?

  53. It hurts me to see deluded fools like "I Ain't Got No Brains" spread their venom and hatred of free sppech and all that is good about America. Why do you hate America "I Ain't Got No Brains"?

    Pamela: This guy and Bluepitbull are mere toddlers compared to the trolls I've dealt with. I hope you don't mind my twisting them around until I get bored making them look like the deluded fools they are.

    Thank you for allowing me on your site.

  54. Yes, I commented at Pitbull today. He refused (censorship) to post my reply to his lie that I write for Huffington. I do not write for Huffington. I expected nothing less from pitbull. He is a liar. He lied on this blog about me.
    If you want good debate, eliminate the troll liars, like pitbull, he is full of bull.

  55. Shaw said "Perhaps you didn't read the speech and just assumed a wrong conclusion?"

    Shaw has the same rubber stamp answer for everything!
    It seems that NO one understands anything but her!


    It hurts me to see deluded fools like "I Ain't Got No Brains" spread their venom and hatred of free sppech and all that is good about America. Why do you hate America "I Ain't Got No Brains"?

    Pamela: This guy and Bluepitbull are mere toddlers compared to the trolls I've dealt with. I hope you don't mind my twisting them around until I get bored making them look like the deluded fools they are.\

    What a Lame Brain A-Hole you are!

    By the way, have you kissed Shaw's behind yet today?
    And WASH your hands, when you come back.. I don't want to get infected from you.

  57. Kris: I hear you! I don’t want to lose what I have, even though I pay A LOT. I also don’t want to have rationed care or be denied my Rx’s.

    Time: I agree that we are entitled to choose. However, once public health care is instituted it will be forced on those of us who chose not to have it, because we will be forced to pay for it via taxes. I shouldn’t have to pay for another’s health care when I’m paying for my own. Then there’s always the old tried and true way of government just taking over the health care industry because it WANTS to. Perfect example: AIG and GM. Why should I TRUST that our government will only provide health care to those who want it? They have a knack of sticking their nose where it does NOT belong.

    Yes, there is waste in private health care, however there is waste in public, too. The current waste with Medicaid and Medicare is astronomical and with government health care it will rise to gargantuan proportions; which will mean even more government to try to curtail it.

    Truth: You have my permission to word battle. Let’s just keep it clean as far as swear words. I hope the others can do the same, too. I have a niece that just graduated high school and will be going to Seaton Hill for a Journalism degree and she is visiting my blog now; I don’t want her reading a rated R blog managed by her Aunt!

    Time: I don’t know what’s going on with you and Blue. He’s always been kind and respectful to me here and on his blog. If you say you don’t write for the Huffington, then I will take you at your word. Although, I’d like to write for a big time blog! Maybe not the Huffington, but a right winger…I’m just sayin’

    Eric: This Shaw hasn’t posted on my blog, so maybe we shouldn’t quote him/her unless he/she does. I wouldn’t want someone to do that to me because I wouldn’t be there to defend myself.

    No Blog: As I told Eric, this Shaw hasn’t posted on my blog so I don’t think it’s fair to quote him/her. Can you word battle with Truth without using someone who isn’t here? And like I told Truth above, my niece is reading my blog now, so if you don’t mind, when word battling, keep it clean. I'd like to keep my blog rated G. Thank you.

    So, I guess, go at it guys. Boys will be boys and even though I don’t like all the battling, I can’t stop what’s inherent in the male species. Just keep it as CLEAN as possible

  58. Pamela D. Hart ; I like your style and needless to say, I like your spunk!

    Great blog.

  59. Pam, you do have a choice, a choice not to be in the public plan.

    There is a long tradition (legally and morally) in America of communally taxing ourselves for what the majority feels is a public necessity and to build a better society.

    Schools, libraries, police and fire departments, infrastructure, etc....

    After over 200 years the majority feels Health Care is important enough, to consider taxing ourselves for it and having all Americans covered and able to get Health Care.

    If you choose to send your children to private schools, you are not relieved of the responsibility of paying taxes for the public school system.

    If you buy your own books, you still have to pay taxes for the public libraries.

    If you don't own a car or drive, you still have to pay the road taxes.

    Such things, as desired by a majority of the people, are not only considered necessities, but a level of life that Americans want.


    I don't want to fight with anyone. I enjoy debating issues with everyone.

    I never met Bluepitbull before I started commenting at your blog. I don't understand why he continues to lie about me, but I reserve the right to refute him, or anyone who attacks me. You have the right to expect people to behave at your blog, but that goes both ways.

    Debate with truth, honesty, accepted facts, will still leave us at odds because no one side owns the truth.

    Lies, hate speech, personal attacks, will not clarify anything and foster disunity.

    Some people want disunity, hat, and fear because they know it motivates people.

  60. Supposed to be hate, not hat.

    I would love to get paid to write my ideological rants, but I would not write for Huffington.

    I can only imagine that pitbull was trying to incite conservative readers against me, because he knows they hate the Huff blog.

    You have been to my blog and I have been as clear and honest as possible with you about my thinking. Have I been civil to you in our conversations? Do you sense incivility in BluePitbull or other comments?

    If I say Rush is a spewing hate speech is it a reasonable response to say that I have never listened to Rush, or call me a liar when I have said I have listened to Rush for 15 years?

    How about responding to Rush's statements that made me say he was spewing hate speech.?

    Just an example (Bluepitbulls comments to me on your blog) of what I was talking about in my last comment.

  61. Is that the best you can do Brainless One? Have you kissed a nice lady's rear end? Who hasn't?

    I had something really naughty but funny in reply but I don't want to get Pamela mad at me. Or Shaw. Or my own young relative who likes to read Pamela's blog.


    Is that the best you can do Brainless One?

    NO, not by a long shot!!! you haven't begun to see my best...

    But you will.

  63. Pamela you have a great debate going on here.
    This Blogger "Mostly kind and gentle truth" should change his name, he sounds more like
    "Mostly dumb and stupid."

    What Susannah said make a lot of sense to me as does what Eric said.

    And you have said it all.
    Great blog. Good luck with it.

  64. Not Going to Take It: Thanks for stopping by and thanks for the compliment. Hope to see you again!

    Time: I disagree that the majority of Americans want public health care. That’s why I think it should be put to a vote. Over 70% of Americans are happy with their current health care. Check out this video to get a different view on who is really uninsured in America.

    As far as Pitbull is concerned; I don’t know what is going on between the two of you. He’s always been respectful to me. You need to do what you need to do. And yes, you have always been respectful to me here and on your blog. I have no beef with you. If you say you listen to Rush, then I can only assume you listen to him. I don’t assume people are lying, I take them at their word; this is the blogosphere, I really have no other choice. I told you I didn’t hear Rush’s entire show that day, so I can’t say if he spewed hate or not.

    Anonymous: I can GUARANTEE you won’t win an award for out doing someone with insults on MY blog. I CAN guarantee your deletion or prohibition if you get too nasty, though.

    Saint: Thanks for joining the debate. It’s getting a little fiery and I try to keep it friendly, but boys will be boys!

  65. Pam,

    Here is a different poll which asks the direct question.

    Being satisfied with a current plan does not mean Americans would not prefer a better, or different plan.

    From Consumer Watchdog:

    Six In 10 Americans Support Opening Medicare as a "Public Option" to the Private Insurance Market; Public Willing To Pay Through Payroll Deductions

    CONTACT: Carmen Balber, 202-629-3043; or Jerry Flanagan, 310-889-4912

    Washington, D.C. -- Deep public dissatisfaction with the current health insurance system is evident in a new poll showing that 64% of Americans support expanding Medicare as a choice for anyone who wants an option to the private insurance market. The poll numbers illustrate unease with rising premiums, diminishing benefits and loss of health coverage when a job disappears.

    The poll also found that 60% of respondents want a Medicare-for-anyone option even after hearing that they would have to pay—sharing the cost of the coverage with their employer through increased Medicare payroll deductions, instead of paying private health insurance premiums.

    “Americans overwhelmingly believe that they should not have to wait until they are 65 years old or become disabled to have access to Medicare,” said Jamie Court, president of Consumer Watchdog. “This poll shows that Americans in the midst of financial crisis are willing to pay for access to Medicare because of their insecurity about losing their health coverage and the high price of private health insurance.”

    President Obama is offering a plan the includes a choice for either a private, or a public plan. I see no reason to be against a plan that eliminates the debate by offering both sides what they want.
    I haven't decided yet if I want public or private. The devil is always in the details. I will wait to make my choice after the options and details are presented.

  66. Pamela D. Hart said...
    "As far as Pitbull is concerned; I don’t know what is going on between the two of you. He’s always been respectful to me."

    He has always been respectful to me as well.

  67. Wow, I am almost leery of jumping in here, but what the heck, you only live once! :-)

    I agree with your post wholeheartedly, and like you pay an enormous fee for insurance but do not want forced public insurance. People can say it's a choice but when your taxes pay for it, there is nothing even resembling choice. I have a couple liberal friends (Octo being one of them), so I can see the awkward "in the middle" position that you are in. I think it comes down to respect and if you respect me, I reciprocate in turn. I like being able to decide what company I want and what type of insurance, how much I want to pay etc. I too, don't have much confidence in a government that had no problems putting us in billions of dollars in debt in charge of my personal health insurance.

    I really enjoy your blog and have added you to my blogroll. You make valid points with intelligence and knowledge and that is refreshing to say the least!

  68. Jennifer: The problem is the people in charge of governmentnot having the guts to make us pay for the programs we all love. We all want a nice big highway program. Congress or the State Legislature issues bonds. We want a big strong military. More bonds and more debt. I'm willing to pay a tax increase for a national health insurance plan. I ask you and the other this. If you lose or drop your coverage right now. How many of you will let one of your children suffer because you don't think government should be involved in health insurance. No medicaid. No law that emergency rooms in non profit hospitals have to treat patients regardless of ability to pay. No programs to see that babies of poor mothers have the supplies they need to keep baby healthy.

    There is no down side to national health insurance financed through a payroll tax and appropriate copays everyone pays.

  69. Jennifer: I’m glad you’re back from your sabbatical and I hope your son is doing better. There is nothing more frightening for a mom than her child having health issues. You were in my thoughts ever since I read your “story” on your blog.

    I think you and I have a lot in common, Octo being a friend, for one, and a very similar thought process. I’m glad you blogrolled me and I’ve done the same with you.

    Truth: With all the debt we have I don’t think there is any lack of guts in Congress. You may be willing to pay more in taxes for health insurance, but I am not. I already pay taxes for others to have health insurance, i.e. Medicare, Medicaid and Veterans/Government Officials. If another government health plan is instituted my taxes will increase some more and I am already paying for a private plan that I happen to like! So, I’m paying double. I’m paying 100% for my own family then I have to pay for some other family. That’s not RIGHT. I’m sick of hearing that it’s a right to have health care. It’s not if it infringes on MY rights. And if my taxes go up and I have to cut back on MY household items so someone else can have something that I bust my butt to provide then it’s infringing on me.

    If I would lose my coverage now, goodness forbid, I would clean toilets to get my children coverage. And if I couldn’t then I would hope they didn’t get sick. If they did, then I would take them to the doctor and pay the bill with cash. If the bill was more than I could afford I would make payments to the doctor or hospital. What else could I do? I certainly wouldn’t not take my child to the doctor. So, that was kind of a redundant question to ask a mother. Any mother would take her child to the doctor and EVERY hospital MUST treat the child regardless of ability to pay. However, we already have programs for children called SCHIPS. Every school year a pamphlet is sent home with my kids explaining it. So, EVERY parent is notified of this program if they need it. And there ARE programs for poor mothers, like WIC. These programs and laws are staying whether we get government insurance or not. If anything, the stimulus plan has increased the amount of money going to these programs.

    I disagree that there is no downside to national health care. Once employers see the cost they will drop their employees and let them get public insurance which will raise the cost of public insurance. Also when everyone has insurance our system will be overloaded and there will be a shortage of hospitals, doctors and nurses which will lead to rationing. Also, the government is talking about taxing health deductions which are now pre-taxed. So, that’s another downside.

    I don’t disagree that health care is a serious issue. However, to ram it through without considering EVERY aspect is extremely na├»ve and I believe it will have dire consequences for decades. If it was so easy to implement government insurance why didn’t Hilary Care go through? Is Obama so great that he’s the only one to implement it? No one on the Left seems to be asking some really important questions and are blindly following him. I think it’s important to ask questions because when something sounds too good to be true it probably is.

  70. Hilary care was stopped by Republicans and the number of uninsured has risen 38% since then.

    The need then was not the same as the need now, that's always how priorities change, by magnitude of need.

    The cost of treating people at a hospital is 10 times that of regular Health Care treatment.

    Corporations are slowly eliminating Health care as a benefit because of the cost.

    Taking Health Care cost off the back of employers is the primary reason to finance health care some other way, so companies can be competitive in the World market.

    I certainly don't need all the services that government taxes me for, so free me from any taxation.

    I don't have kids, lets eliminate school taxes, and refund the money I have paid for school taxes for the last 40 years, I never had kids. Let people who have kids, pay for schools themselves.

    Same for the fire dept., I have never used them. Same for the police, I have never needed them. Same for national defense, I have never needed that either. Some have , but not me, so I should not have to pay those taxes. Charge people who use these services and let everyone else be not taxed for them.

    Taxing the clothes I buy, the food I buy and other consumables is stealing my money, lets stop that.

    Why do I have to pay fees for a drivers license, to see parts of wilderness America, to fish, hunt, to build a home, to open a business?

    I have never used public transportation (buses, trains) why should I have to pay taxes for them? Let the users of these services, pay for them.

    Why have government at all? It has never helped me?

    My life would not be impacted without any of these services, much less public Health Care, but then I think these services are necessary to an ordered, quality society because millions of my fellow citizens do need these services, yes, now including Health Care.

    You might want to revisit the History of the reason why Americans of past generations decided to tax themselves communally for these services they deemed necessary to society.

    Because without them, we would be nothing more than the worst society on Earth.

    Your compassion for your fellow human beings and what you consider a decent society scares me.

    I hate to think of the quality of our lives if we took your "go it alone", "fend for yourself" attitude.

  71. Time: You must’ve missed my comments where I said I don’t mind paying my share of taxes for what is truly needed to keep our country running in an efficient manner, i.e. veteran care, military, police officers, fire departments, and infrastructure. I think you missed my point. I’m already paying for private insurance AND I’m already paying taxes for Medicare, Medicaid and insurance for government employees. If this new public plan goes through, my taxes will go up; consequently I’m paying double, because I want to keep my private plan. There is no way my taxes will stay the same when Congress has no idea what this plan will cost. And eventually this plan is going to do away with all private plans, which in my opinion, is the government’s ultimate goal. Read Daschle’s book. He was Obama’s 1st choice for HHS and he modeled a plan that is strangely similar to the UK’s. I’ve heard horror stories from friends that moved here from the UK because they wanted to get away from socialized medicine.

    As I’ve said numerous times, I have a problem with more government encroachment. With a government plan they are going to dictate when, where and how. Just like with anything else they have their hands in. I hear I’m going to have choice, but those are words. And like on the campaign trail, they are empty. Campaign promises are broken as soon as the office is filled. Why should I believe this promise will be fulfilled? I have nothing to go on. Politicians lie all the time. Obama has broken his promises, i.e. no earmarks (8,000), go through the budget line by line (rammed it through), we need the stimulus plan to stop unemployment from reaching 8% (it’s almost 10%). Now they are throwing around health care numbers and I’m supposed to believe them? I think not. This is an incredibly important piece of legislation that NEEDS more time and it needs MORE than Congressional over-sight. Our politicians have something to gain, so we need some outside influence, people who have nothing to gain need to weigh in on this issue. They owe us Americans at least that much.

    As I said to Truth, I think people need to ask some sincere questions about this health care reform proposed by Obama and the Democrats. People need to take off the rose colored glasses and really get down to the nitty-gritty of the issues and make sure it’s real and not more empty promises, which Congress has a habit of doing. I know people are desperate for health care and that’s what makes it so ominous. Desperation is not a good companion for judgment.

    Your compassion for your fellow human beings and what you consider a decent society scares me.

    I hate to think of the quality of our lives if we took your "go it alone", "fend for yourself" attitude.

    I’m not going to dignify that with a retort.

  72. These are your words Pamela:

    "Any mother would take her child to the doctor and EVERY hospital MUST treat the child regardless of ability to pay. However, we already have programs for children called SCHIPS. Every school year a pamphlet is sent home with my kids explaining it. So, EVERY parent is notified of this program if they need it. And there ARE programs for poor mothers, like WIC. These programs and laws are staying whether we get government insurance or not. If anything, the stimulus plan has increased the amount of money going to these programs"

    So you support the poor and indigent getting government help. You support government forcing hospitals to treat regardless of ability to pay.

    I want health insurance for all of us that we ALL HELP PAY FOR.

    Everyone here seems to me to be of good conscience even if I find their views deluded. Of course we would all scrub toilets if that meant helping our children.

    You're missing a main point of my argument. With a single payer national; health insurance system which EVERYONE PAYS INTO, not just the wealthy, the burden of health insurance cost is removed from the employer.

    I'm sure you pay a good chunk of your income for health insurance Pam. Most of us do. Those that don't will start contributing under my plan. All my right leaning friends should be happy about that

    You will also notice I have no use for the Obama choice of government or private health insurance. I have no use for public/private partnerships. They are recipes for abuse of taxpayer dollars.

    I only defend my plan.

  73. Truth: So, if I am understanding you correctly, the estimated 18 million “uninvincibles” (18-34 yr olds) who elect not to purchase, but can afford, insurance will begin contributing with the plan you propose. Plus the estimated 17 million that earn 50 -75K per year but don’t purchase insurance will also contribute under your plan, too. So, there will be more money collected under your plan. One question, who implements your single payer system?

  74. Pam's opening statement: "...they ALL add up to is Government Run Health Care. Which, to put it mildly, SCARES ME TO DEATH, so I won’t need health care; because I’ll be ashes blowing in the wind..."

    Truth says his argument's main point: "With a single payer national; health insurance system which EVERYONE PAYS INTO..."


    Can anyone tell me of a gov't program that isn't fraught w/ waste, abuse or outright fraud?

    How about gov't entities that are streamlined, efficient, consumer-focused businesses, concerned w/ good stewardship of their $$? Social Security? Medicare/Medicaid? The POST OFFICE??

    I KNOW that Social Security won't be solvent for my future, & 'Medicare/Medicaid Fraud' is a household phrase. I hardly trust the Post Office to get my letters delivered correctly, much less manage my health concerns.

    I refer you back to Pam's opening statment.

  75. TIME said:

    "Your compassion for your fellow human beings and what you consider a decent society scares me."

    "I hate to think of the quality of our lives if we took your "go it alone", "fend for yourself" attitude."

    Pam replied:

    "I’m not going to dignify that with a retort."

    Sorry if I offended, but I made those remarks based on your idea that you seem to think it's ok to have 50 million uninsured causing unnecessary illness and early death among our citizens.

    "I said I don’t mind paying my share of taxes for what is truly needed"

    You made it clear that you don't think Health Care is truly needed. I disagree. I didn't miss your point. I disagree that the current situation is acceptable.

    "What else could I do? I certainly wouldn’t not take my child to the doctor."

    This is precisely the situation millions of Americans are in, and doctors are not giving free care, and hospital care is driving up costs for everyone. They are simply not getting care, they are getting sicker.

    Insurance companies are denying care to those who are paying for coverage.

    I don't hear a plan from conservatives that would end the problems of covering the uninsured and taking the cost off the backs of employers, please enlighten me.

    What do we do about the fact: Health Care costs have doubled in the last 8 years and rising at 6-7% per year. At that rate even the rich won't be able to afford it, and if you expect employers to pay that, they will be out of business because of cheaper competition, because World corporations don't pay for their employees Health Care.

    I just commented at "Closet" because she comes right out and states that she doesn't care about these "bums" (she was talking about more than just health care, but included health care) and that's the attitude I get from most conservative blogs. That's unacceptable to me.

    The greatness of a society can be judged by how they take care of the sick, elderly, poor, and young.

    50 million uninsured causing unnesseccary illness and financial ruin is a sign that our society is turning its back on those in our society, that are just a waste product of capitalism.

    The private sector is failing to provide a situation that ensures people can afford Health Care. Supply and demand is not working. Free markets are ruined because of the economic situation.

    A job is not the best help program, if that job does not pay enough to live within the economic situation.

    As I have said to you before, I don't like Obama's plan. I prefer Universal Health care. The government is the insurer, not the administrator. It's the cheapest way to provide for all, but that's not even on the table.

    How long do we wait to TRY and solve this problem? If we had acted back in the early ninties, we would not have such a serious problem now.

    Your distrust of government is justified, but the private sector is not willing, or able to solve this Health Care problem.

    When the private sector cannot or will note take care of a serious problem, it's not unreasonable for the government to step in and help end the suffering of its people.

  76. Pam and Susanah: Think about what you're saying regarding who will run single payer health insurance.

    Your allegiance to the private sector is admirable capitalism, but this is too important to the Nation as a whole to have the profit motive the main factor in health care decisions. No doubt there are corrupt and incompetent people in all walks of life. Enron is a good example. If the private sector is so grand and efficient then why are GM and Chrysler bankrupt?

    Our highway system is the finest in the world. A poster at my site complained about the Postal Service. 40 cents and my letter is delivered across the country in 2 or 3 days is a good deal.

    Our military is the finest in the world. There isn't even a close second.

    I'll take government when it comes to running programs vital to the well being of our Nation.

  77. Okay, Truth. I appreciate your attitude. We are in agreement that we have a HUGE problem. You're expecting, however, a plan that "everyone helps pay for" through taxation. Suppose for a moment that such a plan were efficient, etc., as I voiced my doubts earlier. The problem then is that something like 40% of people don't pay taxes!!

    So, instead of the tax payer getting hosed by insurance companies when illegals, 'indigent' go to ER's for a sore throat & walk out scott free, now the tax payer will get hosed by the GOV'T when the same thing happens.

    IMO, healthcare delivery is every bit as much a 'delivery' problem as it is a $$ problem. And then you have the illegals problem -they'll NEVER pay into the system, but will drain it for all it's worth. Which ties into the problem of illegals in this country draining our other institutions as well...

    It's a very complex problem, indeed. Private sector is not perfect. There has been a LOT of greed (see my comments earlier - I've been the 'victim' of it), but SURELY there's a way to begin solving it w/o massive Gov't intervention, & soaking the already overburdened tax payer.

  78. I called for a 4% payroll tax everyone pays. It starts with the first dollar the kid at Burger King earns. They gotta learn about death and taxes sometime.

    I get hosed by the health insurance provider also. And I ask who other than government can regulate?

    We have to pay (at least those of us capable of paying) for health insurance anyway. I have no problem sending my dollars to a real non profit rather than the HMO I'm currently bound to because that's my employers choice. So much for choice Susannah.

    Illegals is a problem and a burden on our health care providers. My biggest problem with illegals is they drive down wages. I'm probably as big an anti undocumented worker hawk as anyone. But they're here whether we have national health insurance or not so I don't believe it's gemaine to argue that illeagl aliens are a reason to not have national health insurance.

  79. My own statement from my comment on this thread, to which, I got no response.

    "I don't hear a plan from conservatives that would end the problems of covering the uninsured and taking the cost off the backs of employers, please enlighten me."

    The Republicans came out with their Health Care Plan Wednesday 6/17/09.

    It was a 4 page document that had no figures and no plan.

    An irresponsible answer for an important issue. In fact, a joke.

    The Republicans are not only not serious, but don't care about the 50 million uninsured and the thousands that file bankruptcy because of medical bills.

    I guess they think the current situation is just fine with them.

    Further proof that they only want to obstruct President Obama, not enter into the serious business of running America.

    They have been hammering President Obama for months now on how bad his Health Care Plan is, but when the time came for them to make a statement on the issue, they have nothing to say.

    President Obama should use simple majority vote, and make his plan law as soon as possible.

    For those who disagree with President Obama's Health Care Plan, you should ask those in Congress who support your position why they have nothing to say, why they won't even enter into the debate, or offer a serious alternative.

    Poor leadership by the Republicans, indeed.

    I guess now they can get back to their whining about everything President Obama is doing, with their usual no alternatives, except to define President Obama's policies and nominees by calling them nasty names.

    If Republicans do not want to engage in the processes of government (they gave the same kind of no alternative to the financial bailout bill) then President Obama should get on with it, and pass his legislation on the majority he has in Congress.

    The Republicans can (maybe) explain next election why they chose not to represent their voter's interests by not having serious alternatives to President Obama's legislation.

  80. Time: I'm not ignoring you. My response is on it's way. I apologize for the delay.

  81. Pam,

    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I demand a response, I do not, especially from you.

    It is the responsibility of the Republicans in office, to reply and have a serious alternative to the Democrats legislation.

    I just wanted to point out that there is no serious response coming from the conservative side, legislators, or not.

    I heard just 4 days ago the idea of a "CO-OP" approach to Health Care from a Republican (sorry forgot who) I will have to check into that.

    By the way here's another poll (CBS/NYT) that shows 74% of Americans prefer a public option.

    Copy and paste for the poll:


    Why is there such a difference in all these polls? Not sure. I would guess it's the way (the wording) the question is asked.


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