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Tuesday, June 23, 2009

Thumper’s Mother was Wise

Recently a lot of bloggers are writing about other blogs and bloggers. I thought I’d jump on that bandwagon, too. However, I’m taking a different venue with my complaint.

I read a blog recently that said to ask yourself the question, “Why do you blog?” My answer to that is: I blog because I love writing. It’s my passion. I also want to get out certain messages I think are important. When I do that, I want others to comment and give me their opinions. So, in short, I am blogging as a sincere way to debate. It gets extremely exasperating when others come to my blog (and other blogs) and bicker back and forth like a bunch of children.

I give no awards to the blogger who has the largest cyber-muscles. I give no awards for the best insult. I have my rules politely explained in the upper left hand corner of my blog and they are also stated in the comment section. But for some reason, people ignore them. I suppose it’s easy to ignore rules in the blogosphere, because how can one find these people? They are hiding behind a computer screen. It’s easy to call someone names when one has a screen for protection. That screen makes it nice and safe to insult someone. I find it quite cowardly. I think it shows a lot about a person’s character.

I always tell my children, “What you do if you won’t get caught makes or breaks your character.” I follow that analogy myself. Also, I conduct myself in the blogosphere with bloggers the way I conduct myself with real people. Just because you won’t find me doesn’t give me the right to treat you with less respect than if we were face to face. That’s my motto, anyway.

My 3 wishes:
1. Act like you are in the bloggers kitchen
2. Pretend you are face to face
3. If you have nothing nice to say; don’t say anything at all (Thumper’s mother was wise)

I thought I’d throw this out there for something to think about. Also, see Jennifer’s blog; she makes a very good point in her post.


  1. obamaisandrogynousJune 23, 2009 at 12:22 PM

    So how's it going to play out? It seems to me that this is all a game to some of these people. As a stander-by with no dog in this race, I clearly see the left as the bad guys, the name callers the instigators.. I'm not going to mention any names but anyone who calls himself "Truth" demonstrates once again the depths of stupidity of the Left. He is truly an imbecile blogger and a trouble maker.

  2. I appreciate these comments you've offered here and for what it’s worth I’d like to throw in my 2 cents.
    I've been debating all day whether or not to respond to this act of astounding immaturity and intellectual cowardice. On the one hand, what you say here is absolutely true. One the other hand this is not going to stop. As the poster commented above me said, and that was a very good example. there is a juvenile cowardice and a lack of maturity in the above mentioned blog “Truth” (oh, for a better name!) It seems that he can never write a blog without the mention of a four letter word whenever the Republican party is mentioned. As for his blogging about our former presided Bush and VP Cheney the curse words fly as freely as the wind.
    It's really difficult to put into words just how despicable and childish this behavior is. But if you’ve seen his blog and I’m sure that you have, you would have to agree with me.
    And then there’s his asinine followers who chump at the bit to comment and slap him on his back. And resort to call anyone from the opposing party that dares to disagree a “Troll”
    You know what’s really tiresome? People being hypocrites like taking David Letterman’s side when they know he is dead wrong. Had Rush Limbaugh, said that, there would be hell top pay.
    A good example is his blog called “With Friends Like These” where he pictures President Bush Kissing a King. Or the blog about Jon Voight! His behavior is deplorable. I shouldn’t be turning over old rocks but the campaign jog they did on one of our conservative bloggers only because of the lack of a comer and the misuse of his grammar was deplorable. Liberals love the personal attacks then sit back and watch the fighting...
    I seriously doubt if this can be put to a end.. But I do appreciate your effort

  3. In answer to your blog, first of all I applause you for this well written blog. At some point, this nastiness needs to stop.

    I hate to go all kumbaya here, but I’m actually feeling a weirdly unifying and clarifying moment as a result of today’s events.

    Let’s all take a deep breath take here and realize that whatever our political differences, cultural differences, however much we irritate each other, we are united in our opposition to and contempt for the sort of hate-filled creature like Ahmadinejad.
    In the mind of a liberal, Obama can't do anything wrong. Well that's not how I feel and if I want to blog about it, I don't want to be called names!!!

  4. I do have a blog as you well know JKOW. You are more than welcome to post your essay there and I will either respond or ignore it Brother. And unlike our mutual friend, Bluepitbull, I won't moderate your comment to be sure I have some witty reply.

    By the way, nice essay JKOW.. Deluded yes. But nice.

    Thank you for the opportunity to respond kindly and gently Pamela.

  5. TRUTH 101 said...
    "I do have a blog as you well know JKOW. You are more than welcome to post your essay there and I will either respond or ignore it Brother"

    I chose to IGNORE yours! And for what it's worth, I'm not your "Brother"

  6. We're all brothers and sisters Brother. I wish you well JKOW.

  7. obamaisandrogynous & JKOW, I hope you know that you have done exactly what this blog post is asking people not to do. Ranting about another blogger. Take a deep breath. Chill.

  8. A blog's host is the only one responsible for, or can control what kind of comments are posted.

  9. Which is why she asks people to be respectful, ThinkAboutIt.

  10. And unlike our mutual friend, Bluepitbull, I won't moderate your comment to be sure I have some witty reply....

    You just can't help yourself, Truth, can you?

    The reason I moderate my comments is so that I have a chance to respond to jackelopes like you.

    I agree with Pam. One caviot, though: If they start it, I finish it. Otherwise, I am in complete agreement.

    Also, whoever posted without a link, you're a wuss.

  11. And no, its those posting the comments that are responsible for their drivel.

  12. I agree with Blue on the link thing above.

  13. obamaisandrogynousJune 23, 2009 at 6:31 PM

    Think About It said...
    " A blog's Think About It said...

    A blog's host is the only one responsible for, or can control what kind of comments are posted. is the only one responsible for, or can control what kind of comments are posted."

    With all due respect to the blog's host.
    I don't give a rats ass about being nice to the likes of "Truth101" he is a vile and nasty blogger who hasn't the slightest respect for a Republican, no matter what he tries to say or sell you. I don't buy that "kind and gentle" bull shit either.
    His blog is the worst piece of liberal crap that I've seen in a long time. I see it as nothing more than a filthy rag. I'd rate it #1 on the "Piece of Crap List"
    I believe that if you hang around a pig pen your going to smell like a pig.

  14. obamaisandrogynousJune 23, 2009 at 6:36 PM

    bluepitbull said...
    "Also, whoever posted without a link, you're a wuss."

    I guess you are talking about me... Sorry but if I don't have a blog, then I don't have a link.

    Call me a "wuss" if you want to, but I still can have my opinions as you do, with or without a "link"

  15. Mr. Androg: Your name is made up and your comment was done just to make fun of my post. I find that ignorant and immature. You insist that the Left are the bad guys and instigators, however, YOU were the 1st one to comment in which you immediately attacked, insulted and condemned. That is hypocritical, to say the least. You said you wouldn’t mention any names, yet you DO mention a specific person and say that he is a trouble-maker. What does that say about YOU? I believe you are one of those cowards I mentioned in my post. I’m curious, how large is the computer screen you hide behind? I specifically asked for consideration and you PURPOSELY insulted ME by ignoring that request. You, sir, are NO gentleman.

    On the one hand, what you say here is absolutely true. One the other hand this is not going to stop.

    On, It WILL stop! There are 2 ways. One way is the nifty little icon that resembles a trash can, and every comment I dislike can go there. The other way I can stop this nonsense on MY blog is by comment moderation. I can start using it, and any comment that is not up to par will NEVER see the light of day.

    You mention not liking a certain blog due to its content. Here’s a story:

    When my son was 4 yrs old we were driving to the store. I rubbed my head, felt a little bump that hurt and complained, “It hurts when I touch my head.”

    My son said, “Don’t touch it then.”

    Debbie: It’s good to see you. How have you been? I’m glad you enjoyed the post. You’re right, it needs to stop. We can only hope these immature people will grow up. There are more important issues at hand, as you mentioned and we should be able to speak about them without all the hostility.

    Truth: Was “deluded” really necessary?

    James: Thank you. You ARE a gentleman.

    Think About It: I’m aware of the Blog Host’s responsibilities. However, just like parenting, we need to give children a little bit of rope. I guess in the blogosphere too much rope and they hang themselves.

  16. Mr. Androg: This is MY blog, so you SHOULD give a rat’s butt; because it’s out of respect for ME. If you don’t like someone or another blog, then start your own and post all about them or it. Don’t use my blog as a venue to spew hatred and insults. It’s rude. Would your mother or grandmother be proud?

    Not only that, how did you find and hate Truth so quickly when this is the 1st any of us have heard of you? You are using a fake name and we all know it. So, STOP IT! It’s not nice. You’ve offended me and I want you to stop posting here unless you use your REAL identity.

  17. obamaisandrogynous said...June 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM

    Sorry Pamela D. Hart, but this IS my screen name it is not made up.

  18. obamaisandrogynousJune 23, 2009 at 6:50 PM

    I'm sorry that you are so offended, I will not bother you any further.

    Again I apologize to you... not to Truth101

  19. Mr. Androg: Thank you for your apology. I am sorry for accusing you of a fake screen name.

  20. Pam, it's not going to stop.
    It is what is is.. you or I nor anyone else is going to change it.
    Go have a nice glass of wine and have a nice night

  21. I love it when you get angry, Pam.

    To whomever it is who is commenting. You don't need a blog, but at least register.

  22. This is how it went on James blog for me. The following are comments from James post about how the Republicans can win again. It went on for 60 comments. I won't post them all here, you can visit the post.

    Time said...
    After giving a long and serious response to your post, PIT started his attack on me saying this:

    "Time must be representing the asshat party."

    "Time, you're a joke."

    And ended his attack on me saying this:

    "What you are is a loud-mouthed little punk"

    Any reason why my long serious comment deserved this attack?

    James' Muse said...
    Don't hold back, Pit. This is fun. I like conversations like this. When you aren't ripping someone's head off, I like your opinions (even if I disagree with them)...

    bluepitbull said...
    Nah, it's over. My next step was physical. I don't mind articulate discussion, but he was pushing a little too hard at the end.

    James' Muse said...
    Haha, well you guys' discussion did it again...I leave with a few comments and come back to around 50.

    bluepitbull said...
    Isn't that the ultimate goal? 50? We do seem to get there more often these days.

    The goal is how many comments, not what those comments express.

    Bull thinks it's funny to threaten someone with physical violence, and James agrees.

    Bull is one of those you were talking about who posts negative essays about other bloggers, then leaves them up (top spot on his blog) for days.

    Bull writes a post about Perez Hilton, encouraging and promoting violence.

    If I was face to face with Bull, there's no doubt in my mind he would physically attack me, he said he would.

    There's a lot to what "Think About It" says. Pam, you said yourself, you can delete any comment, so you do decide what the attitude of your comment section is.

    If I leave a serious reply to one of your (Pam) posts, and Bull replies with a personal insult instead of addressing your post, or my reply to your post, why let him? Isn't that what your talking about? That's what Bull did to me.

    BUll said,

    "The reason I moderate my comments is so that I have a chance to respond to jackelopes like you."

    Bull refused to post my comment because it proved he was lying about me.

    Bull is the one who should follow rule #3-since he can't say anything nice about people, he should just keep his mouth shut.

    There are people who intentionally incite discourse to watch the feathers fly, or to simply have a high comment count.

    Trolling is annoying enough, but trolling to insult, or threaten is reason to delete.

    If I am personally insulted, lied about, or threatened with violence, I reserve the right to respond. And If I'm not allowed to respond by the blog host to that kind of comment, then THAT is unfair. That is my general principle about blogs, not to infer this blog.

    If you allow ugly comments, you have to allow the victim of that comment to reply.

    That is why I no longer go to Shaw's blog, even though Bull tells everyone I am part of Shaw's group of ^%$##@$%^friends. Sorry, Bull just another lie by you, about me.

  23. Time, you have a big mouth. You made me mad. It's over. If you can't accept that, then God help you.

    There is a point where people get tired of being verbally assaulted by you and, yes, I have a breaking point.

    So if you want an apology for threatening you, I'm sorry.

  24. See how you are!

    Insult me and give an insincere apology, at the same time.

  25. It was a sincere apology. Trust me.

    Whether you accept it or not is entirely up to you.

  26. A sincere apology does not come with an insult.
    Anyone else think Bull's apology was sincere?

  27. I never said anything about threatening violence being funny. I was referring to the back and forth on the post. I was letting you guys duke it out, and to be honest Time, you both were inciting each other. Afterwards, I tried to change the subject, and I thought Blue was going to talk about the post again. I said nothing about violence. And then you tried to bring it up again. Jeez man. Don't drag me into this...

  28. Also, Time, you are starting something up here, and I'm pretty sure Pamela doesn't appreciate it, being that she wrote this post on NOT inciting, which you are doing, dragging up old insults here. And then you [mis]attribute some of those insults to me.

  29. You loved the whole thread, and printed your laughs in letters.

  30. If were going to talk (post) about it, lets get it out, or would you guys rather forget about it?

    Pam, isn't my example what you are talking about?

  31. Don't try to deflect this onto James, Time. I gave you an apology.

    It wasn't an insult. You do have a big mouth, a fact.

    You are proving it by carrying it out.

    You wanted an apology for a threat of violence, I did. I was sincere. If you want things to go a certain way and demand them, you might try behaving better and not use this as a forum to abuse me.

  32. I thought the back and forth was entertaining, which is why I didn't delete BOTH of you. You were doing much of the same, dude. When you guys escalated to physical threats, I tried to change the subject. THAT was what I referring to, man. Then you came back and tried to start it up again! LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE.

  33. Hey I'm not trying to start anything.

    I apologized.

  34. No, I was talking to Time. Dude, Time, I used to respect you and follow your blog. Then you keep coming to my blog, and others, to start stuff up, and then you drag me into it. Now I'm done.

  35. James said,

    "When you guys escalated to physical threats,"

    Don't include me, I threatened no one.

    Only one person made a physical threat, Bull threatened me.

  36. You did quite a bit of baiting. Not to mention the way you changed his name to Pitsh**. And again, you dragged me into this. You are doing what Pam was talking about here, dude! Can't you see that?

  37. I regret that I no longer promote professional wrestling. I think we could all make a boatload money on the Time/Bluepitbull feud.

    No matter what they say, I am a capitalist first.

  38. Wow, I apologize and this is what I get: Truth 101 and his brilliant comments.

  39. So kids, I think we've proved a point today:

    Truth 101 starts it all. He is the Kevin Bacon of our blogger circle. All hostility originates from him.

  40. James said,

    "You did quite a bit of baiting"

    "Then you keep coming to my blog, and others, to start stuff up"

    I did nothing but give a serious response to your post. Bull started right in attacking me. I baited no one.

    You should go back and read your own comment section and stop trying to change the facts.

    Keep coming to your blog starting stuff? I've only commented twice on your blog, about 2 months between those comments. I didn't start anything either time. Your facts are wrong and distorted.

    Please name all these blogs I'm "starting stuff up" at? Please have some proof, if your going to make allegations. I say are lies.

    It's lies like these, that I need to reply to, because they are false and leave a false impression of what actually happened.

    Like I said, I respond in kind. You didn't mention (but people can read the thread) Bull swore at me and called me names multiple times before I changed his name.

    You follow my blog? I only remember one comment by you ever on my blog. My blog has been on line for over three years.

    Try the truth and maybe a conversation can actually have a mutual conclusion. I won't just let people keep changing the facts and thus, the truth.

  41. So, then you don't accept my apology, Time?

  42. Excellent points! Too many people hide behind the "anonymity" of comments and blogs...

  43. I said you were both guilty of it, Time. And while I haven't commented on your blog a ton, I've been a reader for a few months, since I started blogging.

    What I meant was, after the conversation had obviously been steered back to the subject of the original post, you had to come back and try to start it up again.

    Then you come here and do the same, and start in on me. I've never done anything to you, Time. I've tried to be nice, and not censor anything on my blog you guys were doing. When I felt like it was getting out of hand, I steered the subject away. But now you're attacking me. Jeez man, lighten up! (As you try to say on your blog)

  44. I consider Pamela and Jennifer as friends, although we often find ourselves on opposite sides of the partisan divide. Should this matter among friends? I think not.

    When I find myself in disagreement with Pamela or Jennifer, I don’t attack them in personal terms or hurl insults. I take extra time to research a topic. I look for citations and references. And then respond back with the results of my research. I believe Pamela and Jennifer respect this approach because they know I am not trivializing their concerns. They know I am never dismissive of them. They know I take them seriously. If we still don’t agree, why should it matter that much as to jeopardize a perfectly good friendship!

    In the interest of partisan civility, why should anyone be expected to put core beliefs on the shelf? I have never asked Pamela to be anyone other than Pamela. I like Jennifer just the way she is. And I trust they would not want me to be somebody other than Octopus. Should I censure my own articles and comments to please everybody? Friends do not necessarily have to agree; all that is required is that they remain faithful to their friendship.

    But then I read comment like these (real life examples):

    “Never roll in the mud with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.”

    “You [name redacted] and your Potty mouthed Girlfriend had your chance, now you can go shove your head where the sun don't shine.”

    “Screw her and the PIG she rode in on.”

    “You [name redacted] are a LYING HYPOCRITE!”

    “Lib bloggers suck”

    "Stuck On Stupid" Libturds …’

    “Liberalism is a serious mental disorder …”

    When I read comments such as these, or visit forums that have these comments, I stay away. It is natural to want to throw stuff like this back in the faces of those who hurl it at you. So why get started. It is a waste of time.

    Pamela and I have been arguing the cause of Internet civility for months. Pamela and Rockync (one of 8 writers at The Swash Zone) have also joined forces in this effort. Jennifer has been a victim of online bullying; it came not from the liberal side but from fellow bloggers on the conservative side. I don’t understand this. Why should an independent and thoughtful viewpoint be deserving of online abuse?

    Online abuse is not about politics. Predatory stalking is not about politics. Making oneself the focus of attention is not about politics. Off-topic rants are not about politics. Personal boundary violations are not about politics. These are, however, the actions of disturbed persons who abuse others in the name of politics.

    Every second wasted on abusive people is a second you won’t get back, a second taken away from more precious pursuits, a second taken away from reading or writing or spending time with family. So I don’t bother with abusive people, and I do not visit blogs that tolerate abusive behavior. Life is too short and precious to waste.

  45. Shaw - It's difficult for me to believe you don't know what your mistake is.

    Aw, say it isn't so, bluepitbull! You really, really, really don't know what your grammatical error is?

    You mean that sort of thing?

    Your people are masters of it. you stay clean by letting them run out there and take rounds while you sit back and denounce others. Bravo.

  46. Pamela, thanks for the link! I was not expecting that but am thankful all the same. I applaud what you are trying to do. It won't be easy, but there are some of us out there that are willing to listen to the other side and debate and discuss with respect. I've known Octo, respac and Rocky for a while and have never had anything but courteous and respectful debate. I haven't known Truth all that long but I have never gotten anything less than respectful from him. Respect goes BOTH ways. Needless to say I don't agree with a whole lot that I read over there,(Swash Zone) but that is the challenge. To question why they say the things they say. To give them something to think about. Do I think that they are going to hop over and suddenly become conservative? Of course not.

    Octo is 100% right regarding the bullying that was happening. It was done by so called "friends." Apparently they didn't like the fact that the blog I was on (with others) didn't follow the course of many conservative blogs. It involved a lot of discussion with conservative and liberals and it was a learning experience. It opened my eyes to differing opinions that, although they may not have changed my mind, gave me something to think about. I am not involved in all this personally but I find it wrong no matter what side you are on.

    Patrick M(not sure if you know of him) is a perfect example. He's conservative but half of the commentors are liberal. They take some shots at each other but they all seem to give as good as they get and it works out fine. It's one of my favorite blogs because it's not always complete agreement. How boring that would be and would they really accomplish anything?

    It's your blog and you have every right to demand respect and ya gotta love that delete button. You have to wonder that if you and I (very conservative) and Octo and Rocky(very liberal)can get along and respect each other why is it so difficult for others? Granted not all liberals or conservatives are in it for the right reasons. I think that some like stirring up trouble, libs and cons, and people like them it is best just to ignore.

    I've known Shaw for a while now, and we've had some feisty discussions over the years. Not always nice, but never to the degree that I am seeing now. We disagree in just about every way possible but we've never resorted to name calling though. I truly just don't understand it.

    I take no sides because it's not about us vs them, etc. It's about respect, plain and simple.

    Wow, I just wrote a book! Like you don't have quite enough to read with all these comments! LOL

  47. Pam, Liberals and Fellow Repubs–take a look at my blog It reflects the discussion here.

  48. Durn, girl. Forty-eight comments on a post about manners.

    It's easy to be rude when you're anonymous and unlikely to suffer the slings and arrows of righteous indignation.

    Good post. Keep writing. I'll check back in from time to time.

  49. In another forum, Pamela left this comment that is worthy of restatement here:

    As Octo mentioned, we are friends that disagree civilly and I see no reason why others can't do this also. We are ALL people who have families, i.e. wives, husbands, kids, friends, pets, jobs; we all know what it's like to feel the pain of losing a loved one or the humiliation of losing a job; the joy of finding love or the happiness of opening a gift and finding that one thing we so desired. What makes us so different?”

    I have often wondered what it would be like if Pamela, Jennifer, and Open Minded Republican were immediate neighbors. I imagine backyard barbeques, exchanges of borrowed tools, taking in the mail and keeping an eye on properties during vacations … the things neighbors do! None of this, of course, has anything to do with partisanship.

    What makes our online experiences different? Perhaps for some, blogging is the ultimate video game with cyberspace-villains engaged in “Mortal Combat:” Punch, counter-punch; strike, counter-strike; taking rounds and firing back; endless tit-for-tat name-calling going no place with no point or purpose.

    Some months ago, I visited the blog of a recently retired military veteran. I left a comment thanking this person for service to and sacrifices on behalf of our country, mentioning parenthetically that my own daughter is a career military officer at the Pentagon.

    I received a rude comment in return. Something to the effect that I had no right to an opinion ostensibly because the blogger considered me a phony with no life experiences.

    One error is the rude response to an otherwise friendly gesture. The other error is in making judgments about anonymous persons. What does this blogger know about me, my background, my religion, my education, my career, my family life, my professional accomplishments in life, or anything else. Absolutely nothing! Yet, a friendly gesture is thrown back in one’s face for no apparent reason. Maybe this blogger is habitually hostile and caustic, or perhaps character-flawed. In any case, there was certainly no reason for me to return fire, re-visit this blog, or engage in any further conversation.

    Which leads me to another point: Stereotyping and the tendency to make broad, sweeping generalizations of people about whom one knows nothing. “All liberals are this … all conservatives are that.” I read Frank the Carpenter’s post, and this is what he says:

    People like Pam who have good intentions and who ONLY mean well, try to change this but as you have seen, it always backfires.”

    Does it always backfire? Is this always the case? What have we seen exactly? If a blogger of a certain persuasion commits a gaffe, why are all bloggers of the same persuasion painted with the same broad brush? How does Frank explain the friendly rapport between Pamela, Jennifer, Open-Minded Republican, Rockync, and Octopus? Why does Frank presume to interpret what we read, presume to speak for us, and presume to draw these conclusions for us?

    These are personal boundary issues that have nothing to do with politics.

  50. In my defense, I wasn't really sure where you were going with the whole nihilism thing. Not very many people have heard of political nihilism, but plenty have heard of the other philosophy which hedges around not believing in anything. By that definition, I came to an honest conclusion.

    I doubt you would have excepted an apology, but if it helps, I apologize for attacking your personal experiences.

    You're a fine one to criticize, I've seen the vile things that you've said about republican's yourself.
    Like "Drug addicted, draft dodging Limbaugh"
    And having a category on your blog called "Stupid Republicans"
    So don't plat that High and Mighty, "Holier Than Thou" Crap...
    Just another load of liberal crap.

  52. Doh! The proverbial truth shall rule. Ad hominems against people you don't agree with? Tsk Tsk.

  53. Also I've seen Shaw's blog with the most disgusting things written there and later deleted.
    Why were they deleted was she ashamed that they were written in the first place.
    You can play that game with Pam and Susannah but I'm not going to buy it. Another attempt to make us look like the attacker?
    You people have always been Bush-bashing liberals but you can't take it when Obama gets the same treatment can you?

  54. And then people like New York Guy come in and ignore the post to write their own hate.

    It happened to me, too, Pam. I had almost 50 comments. The majority of them were directed at Shaw. It was sad. I finally had to turn on moderation for that post, as well as one soon after, and for the first time start using the "delete" button.

    It gets tiring. People you've never spoken with come to your blog to complain about someone else. Its trolling, plain and simple, and it isn't acceptable. Like you said, if this was their living room these people would not allow their guests to do this. And a blog is one's cyber-living room.

    People: show some respect, please. Its all Pamela is asking for. It really shouldn't be that difficult.

    Disagreements are fine. Disrespect and name-calling? C'mon people. We should be above it.

  55. To be fair, James, shaw brings this on herself just as truth does.

    NY is right about one thing; these people constantly denounce others for saying things then attack people themselves. I think I've given out the apologies that I needed to, and I hope other bloggers that have attacked people in the heat of the moment will do the same. One thing I will not deal with are these passive aggressive attacks from some of these 'above the fray' people who post bad things about you even after saying they won't deal with you anymore.

    GHB is another example. Alot of these people venerate him and say what a great message he had, but it was a bunch of white hating garbage. He personally called me whitey on several occasions. The only thing I was guilty of was pointing out the obvious glaring flaws in his blame a thon.

  56. James' Muse said..."time start using the "delete" button."

    Hey cream puff, who the hell died and made you King? Who asked you for your pussy opinion?
    Yes, I am a right winger, way way to the right.. and its a sad day when I agree on “anything” whatsoever with the Left. But I DO agree with what the New York Guy posted. Every bit of it..
    You can defend Bammy boy all you want to, but I think that he's a shill to harm this country.
    This is what the liberals get for electing a candidate who is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS.
    Obama is a highly intelligent con-artist and knows that as long as he can distract the multitude with side issues and a smile.
    I love the cockeyed optomism of liberals...they are in power now, but the mood of the nation
    has changed dramatically. A democratic congress and a socialist President is going to set a revolution in place, and conservative values will rule again. So, enjoy your last gasps of trying to take this country down to the depths of depravity.

  57. Pittbull said:
    "Gray Headed Brother is another example. A lot of these people venerate him and say what a great message he had, but it was a bunch of white hating garbage. He personally called me whitey on several occasions"

    Please don't speak badly of Truth101's Hero!

  58. IHTSI - I understand your passion, but please don't attack James.

    It doesn't help our side when we swear constantly. I do understand your frustration, though.

  59. I'm Here Ti Say It said. "You can defend Bammy boy all you want to, but I think that he's a shill to harm this country.
    This is what the liberals get for electing a candidate who is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS."

    Great comment ...I agree with you completely
    Thanks for sharing that opinion.

  60. The Swash Zone is a group blog with 10 writers. To which writer do you refer?

    A bit of background for those unfamiliar with the term, nihilism. It is a Latin term meaning “nil” in the sense of nothingness. As a philosophical term, it means values do not exist but are falsely invented. Existential nihilism argues that life has no meaning or purpose or value. Moral nihilism states that morality does not exist.

    The term has political meaning. The political philosopher, Leo Strauss, attributes the rise of fascism to a deterioration of morality, values, and social norms in Western cultures. Permissiveness and hedonism give rise to nihilism, which is the last phase of a decadent society before fascism descends.

    Neo-conservative bloggers sometimes refer to liberals as nihilists. It is a way of accusing them of espousing moral relativism that ultimately leads down the retrograde path towards nihilism. In other words, a more sophisticated way to engage in name-calling.

    “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em,” is what a friend of mine concluded one day. So he started a blog called American Nihilist in response to the sniping between liberals and neo-cons. The blog is a satire about all nasty things said, each to the other. In other words, a joke. Although I am an occasional contributor, the blog is not linked at The Swash Zone.

    In defense of my friend Truth101, he is a prankster, a jokester, and a satirist. Sometimes he goes too far. Sometimes he is annoying. And sometimes I reprimand him when crosses boundaries. All things considered, he is actually a good guy, albeit oftentimes misunderstood.

    For folks who take themselves too seriously, please do not read satire or visit The Swash Zone. You might cause Octopus to ink the aquarium.

  61. bluepitbull said...
    "IHTSI - I understand your passion, but please don't attack James"

    WHAT? did I read his comment wrong or did HE attack ME?

    Why aren't you addressing this to HIM?

    Sorry Pitbull, but I don't and won't take crap like that from anyone..

  62. These discussion boards are full of vermin called liberals and I see they are always talking about how RUDE I am, well they are right and I offer NO apologies. I call em as I see em.
    I see these left wing cry babies who hate our military, love our enemies, hate morality, love homosexuality, and have no trouble at all killing innocent un-born babies while complaining about VOLUNTEER soldiers who want to defend this great country of ours while they tear it apart.
    They spew hatred for conservatives while praising the acts of people like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Charles Rangel, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines, John Kerry, John Conyers, Ted Kennedy and the other moron who benefited from affirmative action, Barack Hussein Obama.
    Their confused state of mind blended with their ability to push their agenda in public schools and colleges has given rise to a NEO-SOCIALIST movement here in the U.S.
    It seems that they would just as soon shit where they eat, (not surprising at all) because they have no sense of self worth.
    They can only degrade people who do try to stand up for the sovereignty and freedoms this country offers while endlessly complaining about what the government hasn't given them and their worthless "hate America" friends. They do not understand that you can not talk you way out of war with people who want to kill you.

  63. Wow, Octo, again how was anyone supposed to know any of that stuff.

    So as far as I'm concerned, you could have explained, but failed to.

    I aint got no blog, there is no reason to get that upset.

  64. IMTSI: I never once attacked you. At all. Please re-read my comment. It was talking about speaking civilly. As for asking my opinion: Pamela respects my opinion (she disagrees at times, but on this I'm sure she agrees).

    In fact, it was you who attacked me, IHTSI, calling me names in response to a comment about NOT calling each names.

  65. bluepitbull said...
    "I aint got no blog, there is no reason to get that upset."

    I guess you meant me..

    No further comment Pit, I'm through here. I'm abandoning this site.

  66. Wow, that's not at all what I was trying to say. We can be outraged and civil at the same time, though.

    And I don't think it's good at all.

  67. Blue: If IHTSI can't be bothered to read the comments/posts before he comments himself, than maybe he shouldn't comment.

    He has attacked me on numerous occasions, reading what he wants to read in my comments. Like attacking me above and saying I attacked him, when I was neither attacking [anyone] nor addressing a comment to him.

    I would welcome a dialogue with IHTSI, a civil one, and I'm sure Pamela would too. But if all he wants is somewhere he can go to attack people, then I'll be glad if that place isn't here. And I'm sure Pamela would be glad if those that live for the attack didn't come back.

  68. Sorry, Pamela. Looks like your post about not being jerks to each other has been taken over (a few times) by people looking for a fight.

  69. Just to set you straight on the hero thing IHTSI. I respected GHB as a blogger and had empathy for his message. I have great respect for what Pamela, Law and Order Teacher, Tom the Redhunter, Shaw and others do as well. I recognize ability and character in all these people. But the bloggers I think are closest to being my "heroes" are TAO and Octopus and ex Deranged Leftwing Baker.

    Now let the games continue.

  70. Whatever happened to Tao? His blog isn't there anymore.

  71. TRUTH 101 said...
    Just to set you straight on the hero thing IHTSI. I respected GHB as a blogger and had empathy for his message

    Respect This!

  72. Wow! 72 comments! I blog because I have opinions. People I interact with on a daily basis (in the real world) don't want to hear my opinions. I blog because only people who want to hear my opinions will visit and read them.

    Well, except for those who only want to argue.

    Ranting about other bloggers....hmmm.

    I called a guy an idiot in another comment thread, and the administer of the blog, who I call my "brother from another mother", reprimanded me saying he reserves the right to call commenters idiots, and asked me to refrain from doing so in the future.

    So, I invited the commenter to come visit my blog so I could call him an idiot, and then, I wrote an entire post specifically to call said commenter an idiot, entitled, "Dan is an idiot".

    Thank you.

  73. And you wonder why I don't reveal my blog.
    What, and have these hypocrites posting their garbage on my blog.
    One has to wonder why Pam has let this go on, since the post is about NOT acting like this.

  74. Wow, I have a lot of comments to respond to, don’t I?

    Time and Blue: I’m glad all that bickering is done. It was quite difficult to follow, but I think I got the general idea. The question now is, are you two REALLY done? Time, do you accept Blue’s apology? Knowing Blue as I feel I do, I believe it was sincere.

    When I find myself in disagreement with Pamela or Jennifer, I don’t attack them in personal terms or hurl insults. I take extra time to research a topic. I look for citations and references. And then respond back with the results of my research. I believe Pamela and Jennifer respect this approach because they know I am not trivializing their concerns. They know I am never dismissive of them. They know I take them seriously. If we still don’t agree, why should it matter that much as to jeopardize a perfectly good friendship!

    Octo: Thank you so much for your post. The above is EXACTLY what you do and I DO appreciate the time and effort you take. You personalize your comments all the time and you ALWAYS respect me and have NEVER insulted me or dismissed my opinion. Like you, Jennifer and I have all said, we may not all agree, but at least we listen to one another.

    You’re 100% correct about life being too precious to waste. I always say that time is a precious commodity. One we will never get back. We need to use it wisely.

    Jennifer: You are most welcome, my friend! I linked to your post because you made a compelling point about civility. I hope others took the time to read it. I have had good discourse with Octo, Rocky, Bloggingdino, Time and Truth. I’ve only just recently met Shaw but so far she’s been respectful to me. Like you said, we don’t always agree, but it’s done politely. I also agree that I don’t want everyone on my blog to agree with everything I say. I’m not into idol worship. I want differing opinions and other view points.

    I take no sides because it's not about us vs them, etc. It's about respect, plain and simple.

    I want to get that bronzed!

  75. Frank: Thank you for taking the time to join in this effort. Like Jennifer’s wrote, it’s about respect. I’m not asking for anyone to change his opinion; because I’m quite opinionated. I just believe we can express ourselves without insults.

    Pawpaw: Thanks for stopping by. Yeah, who would’ve guessed at all the comments? See, people can even disagree with manners. As long as it’s done civilly, I don’t mind.

    Octo: I think a BBQ with you, Jennifer, Rocky and OMR would be nice. We probably wouldn’t even talk politics. We’d be too busy talking about our kids, hobbies, pets, jobs, etc., to even care about politics. But your point is: we’re people FIRST. I think bloggers forget that. Today with blogging, emailing, texting, tweeting and whatever other ‘ING’ I don’t know about or use, we’ve lost that personal one-on-one contact. Which I think has made people forget that they are dealing with humans and not gadgets.

    NY Guy: Octo writes for a blog that has many authors. Are you sure it was him that wrote the articles you speak of? I don’t recall his articles spewing that kind of venom, that’s why I’m asking. And what kind of game is Shaw playing with me? I only posted on her blog twice but I didn't have any problems either time. I also dealt with her on Eric’s Eyes and she was fine with me there, too.

    James: Thank you. You’ve always been a gentleman and I appreciate that.

    Blue: Shaw hasn’t posted on my blog, so what is she bringing on here? There’s been an onslaught using her name and she isn’t even here to defend herself. In all fairness, her name shouldn’t be mentioned here at all considering she’s never been here.

    Yes, you have issued apologies to Time and Octo. Thank you, Blue.

    Here to Say: I too understand your passion. However, it is possible to express your opinion without being so rude. You insulted James, who is a friend of mine, and I think that was mean. You asked who made him king. Well, maybe I asked him to moderate while I was away today. It’s obvious that thought never entered your mind. I wrote this particular post which addressed the very issue about insults and you totally ignored it. That wasn’t very nice of you.
    James didn’t attack you. He just said time to start using the delete button and it was used as a generalization not to anyone in particular. But it’s your choice if you don’t want to come back. It’s probably for the best. You have very strong opinions, as do I, and I expect certain behavior on my blog and you don’t want to compromise. I wish you much success.

    Conservative: Thanks for stopping by. It’s off topic, but I agree he’s not qualified for POTUS.

    Eric: Turth has the right to like whomever he wants and you have the right not to.

    Mark: Trust me, this was NOT supposed to get this out of hand. I like opinions and debate. However, I feel like I’m a patrol guard on a playground!

    Think About It: Maybe I’m doing an experiment.

  76. And a wonderful experiment it is. I got to try and make ammends with people. Whether or not they accept is totally up to them.

    I figured that's where you were going with this. Most of your posts are of this timbre, I think it's brilliant.

    It was fun, and I'm sure I speak for everyone on that even though I'm not trying to do that.

  77. Blue: I didn’t start this as an experiment. A blogger called “Think About It” said, “One has to wonder why Pam has let this go on, since the post is about NOT acting like this.” The whole purpose of a post is to allow readers to comment. Duh. So, I gave a smart-ass answer about it being an experiment. Then this person came back on and accused me of playing with my readers and being a fraud. So, I hit the “trash” icon. All of my dedicated readers know I am neither a fraud nor playing around. “Think About It” is no longer welcome on my blog and will be deleted from here on out. I will not tolerate being insulted like that.

    Fun? Yeah, speak for yourself! Lol. I’m curious to see if those you made amends to accept. I believe they will.

  78. Pamela D. Hart said...

    NY Guy: Octo writes for a blog that has many authors. Are you sure it was him that wrote the articles you speak of? I don’t recall his articles spewing that kind of venom, that’s why I’m asking

    No, I didn't know that. look, I click on a link and get a blog, so I assume that person is the one who wrote it. Why shouldn't I?

    Who ever the person is that I am referring to is a "YES" man to Shaw, on Shaw's blog... no matter what Shaw says this person be it "Octo" or one of the others you speak of is constantly putting down republican commenters.

    Take James's side or not, He DID attack me and others, and he is NOT going to get a free pass. Although I do respect you Pam , I will not sit back and listen to people attack me and not respond. You can let him or anyone else monitor here, but if you do, then be prepared for the consequences.. Frankly I don't think that he is qualified to sit in for you. His views are entirely opposed to yours and he is a slow in the water...(if you know what I mean)..

    Stuff happens.

  79. Hi Pam.. As you saw yourself, anyone and everyone that made any sort of a comment here was attacked by the left. Liberals are only tolerant to those they already agree with.
    You can never ever expect to get anywhere writing a blog such as this one Pam. I try to treat everyone on here with dignity and respect. Liberals don't, they are suppose to be the tolerant ones, yet I am always met with such anger and meanness. I'm not talking about disagreeing, I'm talking about the more hard line name calling, hateful and disparaging comments that are made. It seems to me that I, a conservative, am far more tolerant of those I disagree than they are with me. While I have had disagreements with other conservitives, they have always treated me with dignity and respect. I am not saying there are not tolerant liberals, it just seem that a lot of them go around preaching tolerance while they themselves show very little themselves.
    Today in fact a liberal told me that he hopes I get Alzheimer’s because I didn't agree with Obama's stance on the Iran situation.

    I personally stopped going to the snake pits called "TRUTH SHALL RULE" and also "Progressive Eruptions" I'm smart enough to know that If you lie down with dogs > you wake up with fleas. So I'm not at all surprised at what has happened here.
    Best of luck to you my friend.

  80. Hi Pamela, I just came across this blog and frankly it inspired me to blog on it myself this morning.
    As for the all the nasty words here, I think that some of the posters that have used them did so in frustration and frankly I can't blame them.. well maybe it's because I agree with some of them.
    You can not mix oil and water so don't try to Pam. If you do try, this is the result you can expect.
    Just express your own beliefs and don't worry about trying to change the world, it's not going to happen.
    America is the greatest place in the world and she is worth fighting for.
    Please see the little story I just wrote in my blog today about the little Iraqi girl and the American Air Force Chief Master Sergeant
    Let me break this down for the liberals who MAY read this.
    Either you are for America keeping the peace or you are not. There can not be two ways about it
    Thanks for letting me vent..

    "New York Guy" I love you! Please don't ever change.

  81. fabulous post ..and typical of a class act like u my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!

  82. NY Guy: I know what you mean about thinking a certain person wrote a blog. I thought that the first time I read the Swash Zone’s blog until I saw “author” at the bottom. There are quite a few blogs out there that have multiple authors, so now I look; but I didn’t know to do that before.

    I respect and like you, too. I think you misunderstood what I said about James. Someone said who died and made him King. So, I told THAT person maybe I did. I was just being a smart-ass. Not my normal attitude, but this blog got so out of hand, I was frustrated. I was trying to do something good and, well… As my mom always says, “No good deed goes unpunished.”

    I’m sorry for any confusion I may have caused you.

    Wordsmith: I understand what you’re saying and thank you. I just know that I debate and get my opinion across everyday without insults or name calling and I intend to continue doing so. We all need to do what we feel is best.

    American Girl: I think you’re right, there were some flaring tempers to be sure. I don’t blame anyone and I’m not mad at anyone, either. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect EVERYONE for that. (Except for Trolls!) And trust me, I’m not trying to change anyone. I just think people could try to communicate without insulting one another. We go out in public and don’t yell at others. Just because no one can “hear” us doesn’t mean we should act any less polite. That’s all I’m trying to say. I don’t type ANYTHING that my kids can’t read. I think my point just got blown out of proportion and that wasn’t what I was trying to accomplish. Oh, well, maybe next time.

    America is the greatest place in the world and she is worth fighting for.

    American Girl, you couldn’t have said that any better! America IS the greatest. And anyone who doesn’t believe that can stop coming to my blog forever!

    WHT: Thank you for stopping by, my dear friend. I've missed you.

  83. NY Guy:
    I don't believe I ever attacked you. I was merely pointing out that you were doing exactly what Pam asked us all not to do.

    Also, as an aside: my views are not completely opposed to Pam's, FYI. She and I agree on a few things.

    I also never insulted you, so I'd appreciate it if you don't insult me (dead in the water? Thanks man).

  84. James: Yes, you and I agree on a lot more than we disagree on. Especially that we need to clean house on Capitol Hill!

  85. Pam,

    As I have mentioned to you a couple of times before, ever since I started commenting on your blog my blog has been attacked with a flood of nasty comments (75 now) from conservatives on your blog roll and other anonymous sources.

    Please remove my blog name from your blog roll.

    Hopefully this will slow the number of these nasty comments to my blog. I'm sure, over time, they will direct their hate to someone else.

    My aim is to be able to remove comment moderation from my comment section, which I never had to use before I started commenting at your blog. Thank you.

    I see you are now using comment moderation, that's unfortunate.

  86. Time: I am sorry you are being harassed. That is very sad to me. As I’m sure you can tell from my post, I don’t condone insults and nastiness of any kind. And if those cruel commenters are coming from my blog, I am even more disheartened. I have a lot of really great bloggers here and would like to think they are conducting themselves respectfully. All bloggers get nasty comments from Trolls. And we have to deal with them by utilizing our trash can, which can be annoying at times, but there is no other way. Trolls are like ants, they come uninvited to every party and don’t stop. So many of us blog to state our feelings and want to get our message out, while others are just trying to stir up trouble. It’s those that need to leave us serious bloggers alone.

    Yes, I’m using comment moderation on this post due to some nasty Trolls. I hope this won’t last long because I like to allow my readers to comment freely. I’ll have to see how it goes.

  87. Time said...

    "As I have mentioned to you a couple of times before, ever since I started commenting on your blog my blog has been attacked with a flood of nasty comments (75 now) from conservatives on your blog roll and other anonymous sources.

    Please remove my blog name from your blog roll."

    What a utterly foolish and asinine thing to say!
    Do you really think that "Those bad, bad, racist CONSERVATIVES are going to your blog because Pan has you on her blog roll?
    You must be a bigger idiot than you sound like you are!!!

    Making Pam the reason your blog gets trolls.

    You most likely get trolls because your blog is as dumb as you sound!

  88. I used comment moderation for a couple of years due to a couple of particularly nasty Liberal trolls. I only recently removed it after being satisfied that the trolls have finally moved along.

    But boy, did it ever take a long time for them to get the message!

  89. Pamela, I have to disagree with those who say you can't run a successful blog with liberals and conservatives alike. I happen to believe that it's possible with a little bit of work. Just because there are those that cannot get along, that doesn't mean that there aren't blogs out there that combine both political sides successfully. Keep it up Pam, it's people like you that make discussion and debate possible and may be the key to bridging the gap between us all!

  90. Hey Time!

    Are you hallucinating?

    I just looked at your blog and found that on the last 25 or so posts (thats as far back as I went) 95% of them had ZERO, NO, comments at all, the other 55 of the blogs had 1 or 2 comments and they were by either Pam or Shaw!

    NO trolls at all, no big bad conservatives at all. so what's your gripe?

  91. Mark: I’m hoping it won’t take THAT long!

  92. If Pam will allow me to respond in kind:

    Willies World of reason said,

    "What a utterly foolish and asinine thing to say!"

    "You must be a bigger idiot than you sound like you are!!!"

    Willie-world of the unreasonable,

    Thanks for the name calling attack, proving my point.


  93. Time, you are making yourself sound/look very foolish.

    Lets not do the same thing that YOU yourself is accusing others of doing. You are the one who is harassing.

    Willie only responded to your foolish sounding comment asking Pam to remove you from her list. To me that does sound a bit paranoid also.

    Prior to writhing this post I paid a visit to Willies blog and I did not find anything that sounded strange as you claim.
    Time... get a life.

  94. LMAO and said.. "Thanks for the name calling attack, proving my point"

    And them say


    I'm not a troll. I'm Just as opinionated as everyone here. ...

    Pam, Bless your heart, I give you a lot of credit. you have more nut jobs than you can handle..
    It takes more than an ignorant troll to make a stupid comment like
    "Please take my name off your blog list, so that I don't get your trolls"

  95. Time: you and I are most likely real close on most issues. I like your blog. But I have to admit, speaking for my side, that both of us bait the other side. Yes, we have been baited also. But frankly, I enjoy the back and forth when opinions are part of the discussion.

    Maybe you're a better baiter than I am but I have have never come close to 75 comments at TSR. Pro T101 or against.

    Relax. We're not changing the world here.

    Guilty! Yes. I admit it. The "Humble Truth101" thing was a jab at Bluepitbull for telling me to excersize some humility. I'll remove it. The guy's a good American and I'll try to be a better behaved foil for him.

  96. Can I join this name calling party?
    I have a few dozen dirty perverted names that haven't been used yet.

  97. The liberals are always complaining about republicans being trolls.
    Well, I'm not a troll, but I would like my 2 minutes on the stage to get somethings off my chest. The Dhimmicrats have done EVERYTHING in their power to undermine Bush, the GWOT, and the war in Iraq. From 85 straight days of the Abu Ghraib BS via the NY Slime to CUT n RUN Murtha to Quagmire Ted to Hanoi John's insults to Red Nancy's garbage to Hollyweird's anti-US bullsqueeze, it is apparent that we have a mess of numbheads in our midst once again. Pam, I like your attitude!
    Thank you..Have a Nice Day!

  98. Octo said, "Pamela and I have been arguing the cause of Internet civility for months. Pamela and Rockync (one of 8 writers at The Swash Zone) have also joined forces in this effort...Why should an independent and thoughtful viewpoint be deserving of online abuse?"

    Excellent question, Octo. If the above is true, & you're sincere in posing this question, I missed it.

    I visited Swash Zone one time: (http://swashzone.blogspot.com/2009/05/citizens-united-against-democracy.html) & was was all but eviscerated because I dared to playfully & genuinely challenge the author's point. You were not the author, sir, but you piled on & did NOTHING to deter 'Captain Fogg' from his efforts to humiliate me b/c my voice wasn't in lock step w/ his.

    I wised up when I realized that I was NOT dealing w/ rational people. (Please, folks, go read the comments & see for yourself.)

    I did not go back to that site, but a friend told me that Capt. Fogg even said nasty things about me after I left & disconnected from the thread.

    It was the ONE & ONLY TIME I was sincerely glad that I've maintained some blogger's anonymity. The people involved in that exchange (I believe you were there, too, James - but didn't participate in the abuse) were frightening.

    I'm glad that Pamela & Jennifer haven't been subject to such. But, Octo, you may want to tell your Swash Zone friends to try a little harder.

  99. NY Guy said, "You can play that game with Pam and Susannah but I'm not going to buy it."

    Just so you know, New York Guy, I'm wiser than you think. ;)

    My NJ college roommate used to call me 'Puff' b/c she thought the same thing at first. She called me 'Puff' all 4 yrs, even though she soon found out her assumptions of my naivete were patently wrong. (I guess it was just fun to say!)

    Take care. I value your friendship.

    Yours too, Pam!

  100. Debonair: Thanks for stopping by. You’re too much of a gentleman to sling names, especially since I’ve asked so nicely not to. :)

    Walt: I haven’t seen you in awhile. Of course you aren’t a Troll! You’re one of my followers!

    Susannah: I had a bad experience with a Liberal blogger. It only had to happen to me once also. I won’t contribute to this person’s blog or comments anymore. This person was so rude to me for no reason at all except that I disagreed. I was viciously attacked. When I civilly tried to explain my position, this particular person got even nastier. I stopped all interaction after that. So, I’ve had experience with this type of behavior and that’s one reason why I am so vehemently against it. There is just no excuse for it, in my opinion.

    A “Puff?” Are you serious? You certainly aren’t hostile, but a “Puff?” It’s amazing what others will call you when you don’t participate in harsh activities. There are other ways to get your point across without being rude, nasty, menacing and just plain vicious, as you and I can both attest to.

    I value your friendship, too Susannah. And I value the work you do on your blog.

  101. Matt said,

    "Prior to writhing this post I paid a visit to Willies blog and I did not find anything that sounded strange as you claim."

    I never said anything about Willies blog. I have never been to Willies blog, and I never will go to Willies blog.

    What are you talking about?

    "To me that does sound a bit paranoid also."

    Nothing paranoid about 75 REAL messages.


    I have never talked with you before. Why come on here and start swearing at me, a perfect stranger to you?

    Why can't I respond in kind? If you want respect, give it.


    I appreciate you allowing me to respond in kind to a stranger who just starts swearing at me, but if you are serious about sticking to your rules, why post Willies nasty, fowl mouthed comment in the first place?

    I see no reason why I should run away from bullies. The way to deal with a bully, is to stand up to them.

  102. Susannah said...

    NY Guy said, "You can play that game with Pam and Susannah but I'm not going to buy it."
    Just so you know, New York Guy, I'm wiser than you think. ;)

    Good, I don't want you to be bamboozled by that Liberal pack.
    They don't want to get along. They laugh at us behind our backs.
    Well I got news for them, I don't want to get along with them either.

  103. Thank you for your empathy, Pam. Your situation parallels mine, & I’m sorry it happened to you.

    I went back to that Swash site last night & saw that 2 comments were deleted after I left: 1) in which your friend Octo gets ugly, accusing me of words/attitudes that can only be explained by his paranoia or plain ol’ steaming hostility, & 2) My exit comment which reminds them (in a light-hearted way) that I’d said EXACTLY what one of their regulars said, only to get slammed. And, I saw what mr. Fogg wrote about me after I left – there’s something viscerally disquieting in his tone & I don’t like it.

    I could copy/paste the comments(including the deleted ones), but that would bore everybody. I saved them though, b/c this kind of behavior against someone w/ no-ill-intent shows a propensity toward something more sinister than just mindless name-calling. Maybe I'm being too cautious, but I don't think so.

    Incidentally, the comment that Capt. Fogg left @ my blog (which he bemoans my deleting) insulted my readers, me & God. Not gonna have that.

    There’s nothing wrong w/ arguing one's point. Goodness knows, I've done my share. I do try to be exceedingly patient - probably why NY Guy thinks I put up w/ too much. However, piling on & pushing the edge of threatening is NOT okay. I believe my Swash exchange fits that bill.

    Like you Pam, I will not contribute anything further to that site. I’ve got other things to say besides belaboring that situation, so I’m not gonna blog about it either. Thanks for this forum though. What is it they say, ‘information is power’? It’s good to get this kind of thing out in the open.

    Again, thanks for this forum, & for your effort to 'do the right thing'. Mostly, thanks for your friendship. :)

    Also, to others of you who’ve ‘stuck up’ for me @ other sites when things got a little heated: Thank you. Y’all know who you are & I appreciate you!

  104. Incidentally, Pam, once my sweet Lisa realized I wasn't as 'Puffish' as she thought, it became a joke. She saw me on the soccer field one too many times, I guess. Then, more seriously, when a bad boy was really ugly to her, had me all up in his face.

    Nah, she didn't think I was 'Puffish' after that, but it had already stuck!

    "There are other ways to get your point across without being rude, nasty, menacing and just plain vicious, as you and I can both attest to." Yes, dahlin', it's called etiquette, just plain ol' nice manners. :)

    (There are times, however, when one must fight fire w/ fire, though. Discernment is the key...)

  105. Time: I have to make a judgment call when monitoring for “foul language.” I didn’t consider “What a utterly foolish and asinine thing to say” a “nasty, foul mouthed” comment. Willie was commenting on what you SAID, not on YOU. To me, there is a difference. Now, this comment, "You must be a bigger idiot than you sound like you are!!!", according to my rules, shouldn’t have been written. But let’s go back and read all the comments. How many people have followed them? Only a handful. That’s disheartening to me.

    NY Guy: Just because I like civility doesn’t mean I’m a “Puff.” (Susannah I hope you don’t mind me borrowing your old nic-name!) I just truly believe I can get my point across just as well without nastiness as some do with it. I’m not bamboozled, nor am I naive. I just chose a different avenue than many others.

    Susannah: I did go to the post you mentioned and saw the exchange. I even posted once in that post. That was how I found your site!

    Again, thanks for this forum, & for your effort to 'do the right thing'. Mostly, thanks for your friendship. :)

    You’re welcome, Susannah. Although, I’m not sure how well I did. I thought my message was clear and polite. But it has gotten so blown out of proportion. I will still continue my civility in the blogosphere and hope that it will spread. But after all this, I won’t hold my breath.

  106. Susannah: “I visited Swash Zone one time (...) was was all but eviscerated because I dared to playfully & genuinely challenge the author's point. You were not the author, sir, but you piled on …

    In part, because of this …

    Susannah: “If you don't like the questions, friend, next time hang up & go back to sleep … I'm starting to worry about your stress level Octo!”

    My comments with respect to the above. Susannah, from the moment you entered the comment thread, you were condescending, rude and sarcastic. In not less than 6 comments, you then proceeded to take over the comment thread, dominate it with off-topic taunts, and make yourself the center of attention. Your comment, “I'm starting to worry about your stress level Octo,” was especially disingenuous and hollow.

    Amateur psychologizing is an especially low form of argumentum ad hominem. You have no business or right to attribute emotions, feelings, or “hidden” motives to persons whom you never met and know nothing about. When you violate personal boundaries in such a manner, you offend.

    When this was clearly spelled out to you, you continued with this comment:

    Susannah: I am (even more now) a little worried about your stress level. You are correct, though. It is absolutely none of my business …

    and then had the gall to end your comment with this:

    Susannah: “I won't tolerate profanity or 'trolling' (…) It's just good blog policy, right?

    In other words, after trolling Captain Fogg’s post with not less than six off-topic taunts, you then proceeded to lecture on proper behavior. More than just hypocritical, you were engaging in the projection of your own inappropriate behavior.

    Note: None of this has anything to do with politics or the subject of Fogg's post. It has everything to do with Susanna making herself the center of attention and a smug, sarcastic, and unwelcome presence. Last, but by no means least, even when this was clearly spelled out to you, you refused to take a hint.

  107. Pam,

    I have a hard time following the distinction in your rules.

    It's ok to use insult language when referring to what someone says, but not if it refers to that person personally?

    When people speak, they are reflecting themselves as a person. If you insult what they say, you insult them. Follow your rule # 3.

    Then why should I accept an apology that starts out insulting me personally?

    Since when is an apology sincere, if starts out with a personal insult?

    Bull started his supposed apology to me with a personal insult, but you said:

    "Time, do you accept Blue’s apology? I believe it was sincere."

    "Yes, you have issued apologies to Time and Octo. Thank you, Blue."

    So you have defined Bulls personal insult of me as an acceptable apology. I'm confused. I thought you said personal insults were not acceptable.

    I do not accept insincere apologies. I do not define it as an apology, if it starts out with a personal insult.

    You deleted "Think About It" when you defined being called a "fraud" as a personal insult to you.

    "Then this person came back on and accused me of playing with my readers and being a fraud. So, I hit the “trash” icon. All of my dedicated readers know I am neither a fraud nor playing around. “Think About It” is no longer welcome on my blog and will be deleted from here on out. I will not tolerate being insulted like that."

    Why should I tolerate Bull insulting me personally, and on top of that accept his apology that included the personal insult?

    Bull threatened to hurt me physically, that goes beyond being insulted, or called a name, in fact, it is a crime.

    But you think I should accept his apology, in fact you refer to him as a gentleman at his blog, when referring to this thread. I disagree with your definition of what a gentleman is.

    A gentleman does not threaten physical violence. A gentleman does not make personal insults within an apology.

    I have never heard of an apology being describe as sincere if it also included a personal insult.

    When children are taught how to apologize by their parents, the parents do not say it is ok to insult the person they are apologizing to.

    Yes I have a problem with Bull. I have to ask; what was it I did to earn his personal insults to me. I never knew him, but he starts right out insulting me. That is a bully.

    I have a problem with those who think his threats to me are acceptable, or laugh (James) when he threatens me.

    I am confused to what you are trying to define when it is ok or not to use fowl language.

    I am confused as to what you think is is insulting enough to earn your act of deletion.

    Physical threats are not acceptable, ever.

    Bull personally insults people constantly. He writes posts that are nothing but personal insults.

    You will never reach the civility you seek with such distinctions, or tacit approval of those that are not civil.

  108. I have always said we need blog as though we are sitting in the living room having a conversation. I truly believe that some of the "bickering" in the comment section would never take place face to face.

    Great post!


  109. I agree with your sentiments one hundred percent. I have been called every name under the sun for expressing my opinions. I respect that people may disagree with me I just wish that they would do it respectfully. Kuddos to Thumper's mother.

  110. Time: You and I do seem to go round and round, don’t we?

    It's ok to use insult language when referring to what someone says, but not if it refers to that person personally?

    I’d rather no one insult at all. However, as this post reveals, I’m in the minority. So, with being “fair” and allowing readers to comment or state their opinions, I try to go about it in the same way I parent. For instance: If my son is acting up, I will not say, “You ARE being unruly.” Instead I will say, “You are ACTING unruly.” There is a distinct difference with correcting the ACTION rather than the PERSON. This way my son feels okay about HIMSELF as a person but knows that his ACTION is not appropriate.

    I absolutely agree with wish #3. But again, I am in the minority. There are others who want to say things even if they aren’t nice. Remember my reference to cyber muscles and the safeness many feel behind their computer screen. If people followed wish #1 and #2, there would be a lot less insulting.

    In regards to Blue’s apology, and this is MY opinion to what I read; he was angry and frustrated with the bickering you two were engaged in. He said it was over. So, he “gave in,” so to speak, at least that’s what I read into it. He then said he was sorry, making the first step toward an amicable blogging relationship. I took it as a sincere apology. He also said he was sorry again and he said he was sincere. And I had no reason to doubt it.

    So you have defined Bulls personal insult of me as an acceptable apology. I'm confused. I thought you said personal insults were not acceptable.

    Time, you are twisting my words and I don’t appreciate that. No, I do NOT accept anyone’s insult as an apology. I accept Blue’s apology as an apology. Both of them, in fact. And again, yes, I stand by insults as not acceptable. However, you BOTH were insulting one another. BOTH of you were going back and forth on a post that was about civility and neither of you were practicing it. Blue said he was done and enough and then issued an apology to reinforce that he was through with the bickering. And yes, I did tell Blue he was a gentleman, because he has always been kind and respectful to ME. As has James and you. There are times in life when we can just rub someone the wrong way. Does that make someone totally bad? So are you and Blue both bad because you don’t get along? Or is it just a conflict of opinions and nothing more and should be judged as such? Should I stop conversing with the two of you because you two don’t get along regardless of the blogging relationship I have with each of you individually?

    I am confused to what you are trying to define when it is ok or not to use fowl language.

    Let’s use this as a guide. I want a rated G-PG blog. I’m trying like heck to achieve that. In fact, I won’t give up! I wrote a post that was mindful, polite and concise and my substance has touched a lot of people. For those who don’t want the message, they can discard it, but need to be mindful of my rules as best as they can.

    Mac: Thanks for visiting. EXACTLY!

    Silent: And Kudos to you! I appreciate your support, thank you.

  111. I am disappointed that through all this Susannah had no words of wisdom for me. Usually, she gives me some spiritual guidance.


    It's been a bad week, but I guess the storm is over.

  112. Bluepit~ You don't need my wisdom! You're doing fine just by yourself! Besides, if you're counting on me for spiritual guidance, then we're both in BIG trouble!!

    Pam put it nicely. Your apology was an apology. I'm learning - from my friend Octo's latest comment - that some folks only read what they WANT to read into comments. That's the case, it seems, no matter how hard one tries.

    Sorry it has been a tough week. Glad skies are clearing your way. Btw, your request for your son is still being honored.

  113. Question: how do you comment on a blog w/o drawing attention to yourself? Isn't that what commenting is about - adding your perspective to the conversation? It's how we do things @ my blog...

    Anyone who wishes to read the exchange about which Octo & I speak may certainly do so. You'll find my initial comment was exactly w/in the bounds of the conversation already at hand (although, I didn't realize it was a violation of Blog-Law to go off topic).

    Also, Octo, since you interpreted my comments in the manner that you did, it's clear you have very little sense of playfulness or tongue-in-cheek humor.

    I wasn't 'psychologizing', I was trying to having fun - & maybe make a new friend or 2 - w/ folks who I later learned weren't all that friendly.


  115. Cute

    Thanks for proving my point, again.

  116. Time: I would appreciate it if you would stop dragging me into whatever feud you have with Bluepitbull. You are misreading and taking out of context my comments. I went back and read through the thread:

    I agreed with you on the issue. Then I left for awhile, and come back and there were TONS of new comments. I said enough of the fighting, and tried to change back to the post. Blue said he disagreed, and I thought he was referring to my comment about fiscal responsibility. He then said, "forget it." I thought he was referring again to my comment on the post at hand. I said:

    "Don't hold back, Pit. This is fun. I like conversations like this. When you aren't ripping someone's head off, I like your opinions (even if I disagree with them)..."

    I said I liked conservations and discussions, even with disagreement, when people aren't at each other's throats. I said I liked his OPINIONS.

    When he brought up the physical thing, I said "haha you guys made my comment count jump" which was in reference to an earlier post where I read it one day and the comment count was 4, then the next came back and it was near 50 because of another disagreement between Shaw and Blue (and others). If you keep reading, I'm laughing about THAT.

    I never once threatened you, attacked you, or laughed at it, Time.

  117. James & bluepit~ Looks like some folks just want to fight no matter what you say to try to appease them. They read their own agenda into it no matter what. I guess appeasement doesn't work after all.

    Quick! Someone send a memo to Obambi before his appeasement policies get us...

    Oh never mind. I'm not supposed to go off topic. I've been warned about that already...

    (Note to readers: tongue-in-cheek, playful humor has just been utilized. Please don't take too seriously. Caveat: Though I truly am a Mental Health Professional, the above was not intended for diagnosis or treatment of any emotional distress or for 'argumentum ad hominem').

    Come on, Octo. You know you want to laugh...Let's bury the hatchet, shall we?

  118. Here are just a selection of the now over 80 comments sent to my blog. I did not post any of them.

    Most have anonymous names, not able to track back. If Pit didn’t write them himself, then he has his minions out doing it for him.

    Some of the names I have seen before as posted comments at Pam’s blog. After this morning, I believe he wrote them.

    I started receiving these comments 2 days after I first commented at Pam’s blog 2 months ago. Nice, gentlemanly people.

    Most of them are a lot more vile, I thought I should tone it down for you.

    The TIME/SLIME comment he posted on Pam’s blog, my blog, and Tao’s blog today 6/29/09.
    What a gentleman.

    I don’t back down from bullies. He’s your buddy, you deal with him.

    I‘ll send you another selection from time to time. You all should have the same joy reading them as I have.

    bluepitbull has left a new comment on your post "Money Addiction":

    Do you have an original thought in your head or do you just repost with no idea what your talking about?

    Totally Up Yours has left a new comment on your post "Money Addiction":

    Time said...

    Pit Shit (that's my new permanent name for him) threatened physical violence against me.

    yada, yada, yada... Big Shit!

    Posted by Totally Up Yours to Time

    LMAO has left a new comment on your post "Money Addiction":

    How can you handle all these comments?

    Posted by LMAO to Time

    Give me Love has left a new comment on your post "Icons And Other False Idols":

    "MJ as he was called, said he was beaten by his father"

    Maybe because he gave a bad blow job!

    Posted by Give me Love to Time

    ME has left a new comment on your post "Money Addiction":

    I have a New name for "TIME"

    Posted by ME to Time

    Sean has left a new comment on your post "Lighten Up":

    You and your opinions sound like a piece of Shit....

    JustADude has left a new comment on your post "Rush Limbaugh Doesn't Spew Hate ! ?":

    You said:"Less than two hours later Rush Limbaugh announced on his radio program, that she is a racist."

    Well I agree with Rush, she is a racist. As are you and your friend SHAW, The Queen Of Hate!

    I aint got no blog has left a new comment on your post "Republican Disaster-Anatomy Of A Meltdown":

    Beware of those dirty hippies liberals . They're immature and irresponsible. ...All they want is free sex and legalized drugs and mandatory abortions.
    Well come to think of it mandatory abortions for liberals may be a good thing!.

  119. Susannah: “Caveat: Though I truly am a Mental Health Professional …

    If you are truly the mental health professional that you claim to be, you should have recognized a certain circumscribed use of language and terminology that would have been easily recognized by most, if not all, mental health professionals, as exemplified in this comment:

    Octopus to Susannah: “Amateur psychologizing is an especially low form of argumentum ad hominem. You have no business or right to attribute emotions, feelings, or “hidden” motives to persons whom you never met and know nothing about …

    To be more blunt, diagnostic determinations can only be made by a trained and licensed practitioner and only in the context of a personal face-to-face interview following criteria and protocols set forth in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV) of the American Psychological Association. To do what you did online and in the presence of totally anonymous persons in an entirely inappropriate context would be considered a serious breach of professional ethics and conduct.

    In addition, I used other terms known to mental health professionals such as “violating personal boundaries” and “projection.” If you are what you say you are, these terms should have been known to you and would have served as a clear warning to respect those boundaries and tread no further.

    In my comment above, I stated in the most explicit of terms:

    Octopus to Susannah: "you were engaging in the projection of your own inappropriate behavior …

    Had you understood my use of terminology in this context, you would have understood this definition of projection ... and this message: Do not ascribe, or “project,” your own unacceptable behaviors, feelings, or impulses onto other persons. You did this by engaging in gamesmanship that made yourself the center of attention and then proceeded to ascribe my reaction to your gamesmanship as a projection of yourself.

    More to the point, when you violated my personal boundaries, you violated my trust. Yet, you keep pushing this subject and still refuse to take a hint.

    Susannah, you are not serving your interests here by continuing to carp and harp about it. There is no hatchet to bury because I have no reason to engage you in further conversation. This exchange ends here.

  120. Hey "Time" Guy, stop making a fool out of yourself.
    And if you insist on doing so, don't do it here.

  121. What I can't understand is if you had any idea that it was someone else, why did you reprint it here?

  122. Time: I believe I told you, when you asked me to remove your site from my blogroll, that I was sorry you were being harassed and I was disheartened if any of the commenters were coming from my blogroll. I also said we bloggers needed to unite against Trolls and show them the trash can where they belong.

    You said these comments began when you started commenting on my blog, but that doesn’t mean they are Blue. It could be anyone. I get Trolls, too. The first commenter on this post was a Troll, even though he said he wasn’t and he started out being nasty.

    This issue between you and Blue, then pulling James into it, and now somehow I’m entwined in it, is a mess. Personally, I don’t need the drama, Time. I have a nice, calm life and I avoid stress and drama like the plague. I try to run a civil blog and if it’s not up to your standards, then I’m sorry. I have tried to explain the things you’ve questioned and I’ve shown you respect and civility. At this point I don’t know what else to do because you persist with issues but don’t express what conclusion you want. So, you need to tell me because I am not going to guess.

  123. Pam, James, Bluepit~
    "Looks like some folks just want to fight no matter what you say to try to appease them." Didn't I tell ya? I tried. I really tried.

    Octo~ I don't respond to psycho-babble online. And b/c I'm certainly not in a professional role or capacity while blogging, any dealing I have w/ people has no relevance whatsoever to professional ethics. I'm not 'psychologizing' while I'm a blogger. Believe what you want.

    Incidentally, the last CEU's I accrued re: the DSM were for the use of the new DSM V, not DSM IV. I'm way ahead of ya, bud.

    I tried, dear sir. I really tried. I guess we weren't meant to be friends. My Mama used to tell me, "There are just some people who aren't gonna like you, no matter what you do." She was right. C'est la vie!

  124. Pam~ I just re-read your comments & responses. YOU'RE really trying, aren't you, sweet thing!?

    Listen, don't sweat it. At this point, people probably wouldn't mind if you don't respond to everything! ;)

  125. Susannah: I know, I'm pooped. I'll bet people aren't even reading at this point! Well, maybe a few.

  126. I'm reading. I've also been using the delete button quite frequently at my site these days. Seems that no matter how many times I try to bring people back on track, there are those set against discussion of the issue at hand. It's a cry for attention, really.

  127. James, who else are you deleting? You only deleted me once, that I know of. You make it sound like your finger is busted from deleting.

    Maybe you should have used that delete button when one of your readers threatened me.


    I guess you didn't read my response at Tao's.

    You talk about civility, but all I get is sworn at and attacked. These friends of yours are potty mouths. Willie, I aint got no blog, Bull, and more. This is civility?

    I think I proved it is Blue writing those messages. See Tao's thread.

    Blue attacks me, threatens me, fills my blog with nasty messages, yet this is my fault because you think Bull has done nothing.

    Insulting someone while you apologize to them, is not an apology. You disagree, but calling me a big mouth, is an insult, and I decide what is an insult to me. You decide what is an insult to you.

    If Bull is so sincere and innocent, why is he still sending all these messages to my blog? Why does he attack me at other blogs?

    His behavior after the incident proves he is insincere.

    A bad judgment on your part. Why do you think I should agree with your mistaken conclusion?

    You bias towards your friend Bull has clouded your judgment, or do you think it's ok for any guy to threaten people? Is nasty civil. Blue is nasty and there is his printed word at many blogs to prove it.

    Look at the nasty things he blogs about and treats Shaw, truth, Tao, and more. I'm not the only one who gets his nasty treatment, and that should be proof enough that this is a problem with Blue, not me.

    Blue is sending those messages. His name is on many of them. Read again what I posted at Tao's. There is plenty of evidence it is him.

    So I won't lay down for him and allow his lies to become the truth. I wasn't brought up to run away from bullies.

    I started a dialogue with you because you seemed reasonable. I come here get insulted by Blue, start getting tons of nasty messages, have to put on comment moderation, got threatened by Blue at James, and then be declared guilty as if it was all my fault. If as you say, Blue is innocent.

    I don't want anything but to hope your morals and manners are what you say they are. That hasn't been shown to me by your defending Blues behavior, or posting your readers nasty messages to me when you had the chance not to.

    The only thing I did wrong is respond. I incited nothing. If my response puts people off, they should consider what I'm responding to. That put me off.

    If you want to protect Blue in the face of clear evidence, fine, but don't make me the bad guy.

    And with so much evidence against Blue, don't expect me to respect your decision.

    You made up your mind before this all blew up. You haven't even been to my blog for 2 weeks.

    I would never let this happen to you on my blog. Civility is allowing zero swearing, not using some ridiculous explanation that it's ok to swear at someones ideas, just not them personally????

    When you wonder why liberals won't come to your blog, question your own objectivity.

  128. Time, you need to grow up and grow a pair.

  129. Time: You're not the only one I've had to delete. I had to delete three trolls who came there to attack Gray Headed brother.

    I've only had to delete you recently because you are doing the same thing. You keep going around trying to dredge up the argument between you and Blue. If you want to discuss the post at hand, I'll stop deleting you.

    Before that argument, I don't believe I've had to delete people before.

    I don't delete people, usually, for getting heated during a discussion. Then I tried to change the subject, a few times, while you guys were going at it. BUT YOU KEPT BRINGING IT BACK UP. And now you are going around the blogosphere trying to drag everyone into your pettiness. If you want to truly deal with it, make a post on your own blog, and then invite him there to discuss this.

    But stop going around the blogosphere and trying to start this same fight on every blog. Man, I've lost so much respect for you since this all went down.

    And by the way, what Blue said wasn't a "crime" as you keep ranting about. Veiled threats are not considered a crime. It wasn't even directly at you, nor explicit. Not to mention you are in different states.

    This needs to stop. Grow up, dude. Let's get back to blogging.

  130. James' Muse said...
    " Time: You're not the only one I've had to delete. I had to delete three trolls who came there to attack Gray Headed brother"

    LOL..Oh, that should make him feel a whole lot better...LMAO

  131. James,

    I tried!

    When i gave a serious reply to your post, I was attacked, sworn at and called names.

    When you establish a serious blog, let me know, I will try again.

    You could come to my blog, where those kind of things will not happen.

    I have a blog where only serious, civil debate is allowed.

  132. Time: That's why I tried (unsuccessfully) to change the subject multiple times. And you tried to change it back.

    I try not to moderate too closely. I don't check my blog but a few times a day, usually, and sometimes it isn't for days. Sometimes, I come back and an argument has unfolded, much like yours.

    Not everyone has to moderate.

    Btw, I do have a serious blog. Just because I don't always moderate doesn't mean it isn't serious. Look at the Daily Kos, TruthDig, etc. They don't moderate their posts, either. But no one would accuse them of not being a "serious" blog. That's silly logic.

    In fact, many people consider my blog serious, on both sides of the aisle.

  133. You never addressed me or replied to my serious comment.

    I remember you telling Blue that you enjoyed watching him "taking people's heads off" I believe were your words.

  134. I said I enjoyed his opinions when he wasn't taking people's heads off.

    I meant I enjoyed the discussion.

    And yes, I did respond to your later comment. I said:

    "The party's stance is on fiscal conservatism. I'm not talking supply side, but Time has a point. The GOP talks about fiscal responsibility but doesn't follow through. We desperately need GOP leaders who will practice what they preach."

  135. Time: T'aint worth it, I tell you, t'aint worth it ... this back and forth that resolves nothing and goes in circles. Nor is it healthy for you or the rest of your friends here. Here is some advice from an aging cephalopod: When "ink" fails, try "camouflage."

  136. Time: I’m sorry you are displeased with me. I’m sorry you feel I am morally inept and that my blog is antagonistic, uncivilized and trivial. I’m sorry you think I have clouded judgment; that I’m unreasonable; that I have a despicable mindset; that I chose sides, that you think my blogroll is filled with repulsive people, and that you feel I did not defend you. I’m sorry you think I haven’t been on your blog even though I have been reading it though not leaving comments. I’m sorry Trolls have been leaving you nasty comments and I’m sorry you feel they have come from my blog. I’m sorry you are being harassed. I’m sorry for any and all unfair treatment you have received on my blog and any other blog you have visited. I have tried to the best of my ability to explain everything you have questioned. I’m sorry you are not satisfied with my clarifications. There is nothing else I can say, except I’m sorry and maybe James is right. If you still feed the need to express yourself on this issue, write a blog post about it on your own site. That way you will be in charge and have the ability to moderate at your discretion and it will be done to your satisfaction. Again, I am sorry. I wish this could’ve worked out differently; but unfortunately I do not have the energy to continue with this effort.

  137. Pam said: "If you still feed the need to express yourself on this issue, write a blog post about it on your own site. That way you will be in charge and have the ability to moderate at your discretion and it will be done to your satisfaction. Again, I am sorry. I wish this could’ve worked out differently; but unfortunately I do not have the energy to continue with this effort."

    After reading all these silly and ridiculous, trivial, comments and creating all these silly excuses.. All I can say is.. AMEN to what Pam just said!

  138. The comments by these two are a compilation of all mindless; obtrusive and stupid; ridiculous; no comment; ridiculous and unnecessary things to put on this blog..

    I have to agree with Pam, why don't you just think of the stupid things you say and then don't say it.

  139. Pam, I'm not sure how you do it or where these people come from, but you sure know how to attract the weirdos.

  140. This comment has been removed by the author.

  141. Man...although I'm familiar with most of the players in this drama, I guess I missed a few episodes. Probably not too wise to throw my two cents in here…but I will anyway.

    As far as "Why do you blog?":

    I write solely to amuse myself. If others enjoy reading what I write, I'm quite flattered. If they hate it, I really don't care. To me, it's catharsis. I'd be writing even if I was 100% no one was reading, because my blog isn't about what other people think. It's about what I think.

    That said, I'll allow a few slings and arrows in my comments section, including the occasional f-bomb, which I’ve been known to use myself (my wife wouldn’t say that’s a grand understatement). What I won't allow is a comment that simply says "F**k Cheney" because that's not really a comment, it’s a spastic response by someone who has run out of things to say. I think it's up to the blogger as far as how far they want to let things go. I try to observe the house rules if I’m commenting on another blog, which I only do occasionally. But we’re ultimately all the keepers of our own inn. You can't control other people's behavior, but you can control who you let in the front door. Obviously, physical threats are way the hell out of bounds, but they’ve become sadly common in the internet age (funny how brave some folks get when they think they’re safe behind a keyboard).

    I’ve had mostly civil discussions with other bloggers and posters, but I’ve been involved in a few slime-fests as well. Some of it just comes with the territory. A lot of the problem stems from the fact that it’s all well and good to say we shouldn’t take politics personally, but it’s easier said than done. If I write that, on the whole, American liberals instinctively side with America’s natural enemies, you can be certain that I believe it. Now, I can absolutely see why a liberal would be upset with that- and yes, somehow I still have a liberal friend or two – but what am I supposed to do? Not write it? Water it down so that no one gets upset (in which case its been altered past its original meaning)? No chance of that happening. So while I think civility is important (truly), I also think that blogging about politics is maybe not the best pastime for someone who is somewhat thin-skinned.

  142. Three cheers for PJ!!

    See? Didn't I say I liked your style??


  143. Pajama: Thank you, a very well-written comment. But I wouldn’t expect anything less from you. Like Susannah said, you have "style."

  144. PJ
    "Obviously, physical threats are way the hell out of bounds"

    At least someone finally had the manners to state that clearly. In this whole thread your the first one to say it. Pam never said it.

    "If you look at a profile of a idiot, Time fits the profile perfectly."

    Sarah, and others, thanks for proving my point.

    If your going to write a post about civility and set rules (as your post did) then follow those rules for all, not just some.

    I've lost track on how many comments, just swore at me personally.

    Comment moderation can stop all of this, which is why (check all my comment sections) you won't see any of this vulgar stuff on my blog. Although I didn't need to use comment moderation for years until I came to this blog.

    If you read it before you post it, it is your manners you are posting no matter who wrote it.

    My reprint of Bulls physical threat against me was an EXAMPLE of what you wrote about, incivility.

    This thread got out of hand, because some refused to agree (and clearly state) it was incivility. PJ was the first.

    I will not agree it was not uncivil, no matter how shaded the explanations, that also shows the level of a bloggers manners, or lack of.

  145. Agreed!

    And this post has 148 comments, and I've only read through some of them, but it seems like many of them are as if you hadn't even posted this one about being respectful.

    And now, I will go back to my own blog that is usually not political, but is at the same time a huge political statement in and of itself. But I'm lucky that those who choose to comment are always respectful.

  146. mizatOkay folks. Let's all partake in a moment of frankness. We blog because we enjoy it as Pajama Underground says. And who among us only wants to have a love fest of bloggers that agree with us on every issue?

    Outside of Pamela and Jennifer, I can't think of any of us that don't taunt and cajole the other side to some degree or another.

    I'll grant to Time that Bluepitbull has crossed the line a few times. So have I. Those times I am truly sorry for. I have no doubt Bluepitbull and the rest of us have hit the post comment icon only to be sorry about it then or later.

    Some of my fellow Libs get bent out of shape when they are attacked at other blogs. I like it. It's a compliment in a way. We all want to be noticed. Voice our opinions and hopefully have a few people be interested in them. And we reciprocate by being interested in theirs. Whether or not we agree.

    Some of the people that blog in this group are highly skilled with the computer. If there really is a stalker or a real threat to any of us, they will be found out. Guard your personal information, keep your spyware program set on high and you'll be fine.

    A few bloggers have the talent and communication skills to enrich us all. Pamela is a fantastic lady. As is Jennifer. As is Shaw. Three bloggers that I get as much from in the way of opinion and the way they conduct themselves as left leaning bloggers are right leaners Tom the Redhunter, Law and Order Teacher and Carl Wicklander. of Uncouth Ruminations.

    This could go on for weeks. Who called whom what first. The only things that matter are that you're enjoying the blog and enjoying yourself. If this is misery because a guy you will never meet disagrees with your position and called you a deluded right wing fool, or a commie pinko, you need to find another hobby.

    Sorry about the length of this comment Pamela.

  147. Truth: I believe you just revealed that 50% good guy part I told you about in my psycho analysis I gave you awhile back.

  148. That's a civil blogger comment. One of PITSHIT'S minions from his blog roll.

  149. Time: I deleted those 2 comments from fake profilers, who insulted you and your blog. I apologize; they were there when I woke this morning.

  150. Pam, I have a question for you.
    And i do not ask it with a lack of respect, I only ask because I am honestly curious ...
    Why do you allow this guy "Time" to post this

    Time said...

    That's a civil blogger comment. One of PITSHIT'S minions from his blog roll.

    Yet I see you have deleted response to his saying things like that!

  151. Here to Say: I would like to be fair to everyone. And my goal was to have my comment section as an open forum for readers to discuss the topic and opinions. However, if this issue doesn’t cease, I’m afraid I’ll have to terminate it myself. I’ve never had to prohibit anyone from posting here, but I suppose there is always a first. That will make me sad, but what other choice will I have if this doesn’t cease?

    Yes, I deleted 2 Trolls this morning. One called Time a “F’ing” something or other. Which was TOTALLY out of line. The other was just plain stupid but referred to something on another blog and was posted to antagonize. I left Time’s comment just to PROVE to him I am fair and I DO allow people to defend themselves.

    I hope I’ve explained myself. This thread got way out of hand. I’m thinking of closing it down. I can’t concentrate on my research for my new post at this point. It’s just way TOO much drama for me.

  152. Pam, You research your posts? What kind of blogger are you? :-)

  153. I agree with Mark, close it down. These people are just using your blog for their own fun and games.

  154. Ditto what ImHere just said. (

    go check your email, btw)


  155. I said that? I thought I was just being funny!

  156. Well, since I’m in charge… boy that makes me feel all SO powerful and all. GEEZ. I’m shutting this post down. 160 comments, that’s a RECORD! Too bad all the comments weren’t productive. I don’t know if anyone else learned anything from this thread, but I sure did.

    I’ve always known that each person has control over his or her own actions and thoughts. But I had the silly notion, go figure, that maybe if I explained how civility in the blogosphere could work people might try it. Well, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water…

    We have locks on our doors; passwords on our accounts; laws and rules enforced by cops, so why should the blogosphere by any different? There will always be those out there, in real life and in the blogging community, who will break rules and be discourteous, either because they can or because they just don’t care. So, with that being said, I’m still going to conduct myself with propriety and dignity and let others do as they will. And at the end of the day when we do our personal inventories, mine will have a lot less garbage

  157. This place is more fun than Neverland.

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